Messages

1

General Discussion / Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers

« on: August 02, 2016, 08:35:34 pm »

Hi All

I'm just wondering if this is now starting to get over priced.

So lets say I want PAW and Flarm. £200 PAW, £450 FLARM, SD say over 5 years £495, Cheap tablet £120, PAW software over 5 years £76 = £1,341.

May as well just buy a FLARM unit and get Modes S + C + ADS-B + FLARM all with free upgrades each year.

Might just be loosing the plot here! Only makes sense if someone already has some of the parts.

Regards

Julain

2

General Discussion / Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers

« on: July 19, 2016, 04:08:52 pm »

PS

It might be good if FLARM could also process PAW targets? If there is a big enough installed base it might be a good option for the FLarm customer base in the UK?

3

General Discussion / Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers

« on: July 19, 2016, 04:01:47 pm »

Hi Lee

I'm just in the last stages of putting a PowerFlarm Core in (already ADS-B out).

Not sure if PFC will work with what you describe as it sounds like the feed into PAW is what would normally go to the display? But happy to help if I can.

Just a thought:- This would also be an expensive way to get FLARM targets? I think a PF mouse is £450? OGN are allowed to decode the Flarm signal and display it on the internet cant we just decode and display without transmitting anything in the same way OGN do? I honestly cant see why Flarm would object as PAW will not have the capability required by a Glider?

regards

4

General Discussion / PAW of limited use (for now at least)

« on: June 19, 2016, 05:36:16 pm »

Dear All

I took my new PAW down to Popham and Chilbolton to give it a test over the past 2 days. Fired it up in the car with the antenna on the roof all worked well I could see lots of CT all above 10,000 feet (I will filter these out after my test). Also I saw one light aircraft with ADS-B out which worked well could see him in the air and on the iPad.

When it came to the aircraft that one will in the main actually encounter there were some issues as follows:-

1) No fault of the system but a large proportion of the aircraft have neither a Transponder or a PAW. At Chilbolton most (80%) of the aircraft do not have Transponders and they have never heard of a PAW. So we are not going to see these aircraft.

2) If the aircraft does have a Transponder a lot are old and only MODE C. I can see PAW does not pick up Mode C it only picks up Mode S. I understand there is an issue with Mode C and S as they would be duplicate transmissions. The TM250 from Funke Werk just displays these as duplicates and FLARM does some sort of calculation to eliminate duplicates. The point is however we just need to know there is traffic at our height and then climb or descend to avoid it. So we really need Mode C also maybe as I read somewhere on the site with the "banners" so can see how many aircraft have been detected even showing duplicates (like the TM250).

3) The system detects bearing less Mode S fine. I did not have the audio on as I did not have a lead but I was expecting the standard SD type response of some sort of "buzzer" or other warning but all that happens is silently a very tiny white aircraft is place on top of ones own and the reg and height difference is displayed in small letters that one needs reading classes to see. If one was flying and keeping a look out it would go completely unnoticed so issuing some sort of very clear warning is really needed soon. Otherwise without the audio lead its not much use.

4) Chilbolton is near Lasham so there will be lots of gliders around. I am told by a member at Lasham that all the cross country gliders have Flarm but of course we will not see these unless they have a Mode S transponder and of course they wont see us.

So all in all I would expect we can only see between 10 - 20% of the light traffic at the moment. I know in France with Flarm the clubs had to mandate Flarm fitment and as you all know the USA has mandated all traffic has to be ADS-B out by 2020. Maybe mandating some sort of equipage is the only way a system like PAW is ever going to be of any real practical use.

I am now not in a great rush to get the PAW in the plane as at the moment it is probably more of a distraction than any practical use. I was hoping that at least detecting Mode C and S would be useful but at the moment this is not the case.

I dont want to sound negative I'm just pointing out the limitations we have at the moment.

Solutions could be:-

1) Step up the marking campaign for PAW so we get a higher equipage density (PAW + ADS-B). BMAA + LAA + mags like Flyer all need to give it a BIG push.

2) Implement a proper warning on SD and other software (some sort of "buzzer") for bearingless targets like Mode S + C. Having to have another lead and a way to output the audio is really messy why cant it be over the wifi to the NAV software?

3) Detect Mode C. Dont know the stats but all the old aircraft seems to have only Mode C.

4) Try to do something on the Flarm issue.


Regards

5

General Discussion / Re: Mode-S problem with SkyDemon

« on: June 18, 2016, 10:40:39 am »

Hi Paul

Sounds good why try to reinvent the wheel when we have developed standards that have been tested over many years. Will also save development time in the software - ie user testing etc.

6

General Discussion / Re: Mode-S problem with SkyDemon

« on: June 18, 2016, 10:03:35 am »

I've just got my PAW so still trying to learn how it works with SD in terms of what is displayed.

On the Mode S display the circle around the aircraft for bearing less targets is the "standard Flarm" display which all Flarm displays use. I think an aircraft piggy backed on top of ones own aircraft is confusing and sounds a bit like that old Frank Sinatra song "I did it my way" why not just stick to the standard Flarm way as PAW uses the Flarm interface standard developed and tested over many years by Flarm?

I think it opens a can of worms to move away from developed standards particularly when we talk to SD about enhancements if PAW just decides to do its own thing.

I would be a bit alarmed to see an aircraft piggy backed on my aircraft.

7

General Discussion / Re: How to stop transmissions

« on: June 17, 2016, 02:42:09 pm »

Ah Lee very cunning!

So I can transmit both ADS-B and PAW (not sure why I would need to? :-) ) but anyway I will only show up as one aircraft on a PAW so that should be OK.

PS we have a BBQ tomorrow and I am planning to show it to club members tomorrow. How many have been sold so far as I'm sure this will be a question.

Thanks

8

General Discussion / How to stop transmissions

« on: June 17, 2016, 02:12:39 pm »

Dear All

Just got my PAW and had it up and running within 30 mins and really pleased with the functions in the software a lot of thought has gone into this.

My only question is how do I stop the transmissions as will be ADS-B out soon and I don't want to be showing up as two aircraft. I don't think I can just remove the antenna and there does not appear to be anything in the software?

 Thanks

9

General Discussion / Re: Multiple Wifi Networks in the Cockpit

« on: May 21, 2016, 05:05:03 pm »

I am in the middle of installing a POWERFLARM. If PAW could be interfaced to FLARM then you would only need the PAW transmissions from other aircraft (POWEFLARM picks up AD-B) into FLARM. Not sure this will ever happen given the stance of FLARM. Shame we cant code and transmit in the same way as FLARM then we would be moving toward a standard system everyone could use maybe the CAA could force the issue or the gliding community?

Just on another fairly obvious point if the PAW user has ADS-B out (which is good!) the PAW transmissions should be disabled so that two planes don't show up on SD. I'm planning to have both systems available in the plane (both interfaced to SD via WiFi - but only one at a time of course) but as I mentioned in a previous post this set up needs the PAW transmission switched off (which I understand is possible) as I will have ADS-B out from the TRT800H and the position data from FLARM. Interesting to see which system performs the best PAW or FLARM.

10

General Discussion / PAW functionality

« on: May 18, 2016, 05:11:51 am »

First of all what an amazing achievement to get this project this far with so many users already really well done to the team.

I just had a few questions about the functionality of the software:-

1) was it possible to get anywhere with FLARM to detect their devices?

2) are targets just displayed on SD or are any "alarms" given?

3) what was the final range of the system with a good antenna system (possibly external)

4) for non-bearing targets is the range estimated by the system so as to filter out targets far away?

5) for non bearing targets is a warning given if it's at a height similar to own aircraft?

6) I guess the system will not respond to aircrafts own mode S transponder based on input of transponders hex code?

7) is there filter to exclude for example commercial traffic broadcasting ADS-B?

Regards

Julian

11

General Discussion / Re: Audible alarm

« on: April 16, 2016, 01:44:20 pm »

Hi Paul,

Yes we are next door neighbors!

Yes the original FLARM is available but I would like as much as possible on one screen so FLARM + ADS-B + Mode A&C (with a frequency strength estimate and FL if available) all on one nice and neat 57 mm screen and PW + ADS-B on the SD. 

If someone could politely ask FLARM to also display PAW equipped aircraft in their system that would be great otherwise I'll still need to look for PAW transmissions on my SD. 

I'm still thinking / researching about where to put the antennas to make sure it all works. Need to see what the options are for PAW then somehow work these in with what is required for FLARM.

Hope to have it all working in the summer sometime.

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General Discussion / Re: Audible alarm

« on: April 15, 2016, 10:47:05 am »

Hi Paul,

I'm based at Chlbolton www.chilboltonflyingclub.co.uk (in between Old Sarum and Popham) but I'm thinking I will need to install POWERFLARM as well as a PAW so will need a PAW anyway (with the RF turned off of course as I will have my TR800H transmitting ADS-B out).

If the PAW commercial release is going to be delayed then I might have a go at building a receiver as that's all I need. LX avionics are waiting for stock of POWERFLARM and I'm also checking the mod requirements from the BMAA so I can wait a while.

I know it costs a lot for FLARM but by all accounts this is the best CWS on the market at the moment. The FLARM installtion is also neat with a 57mm intelligent radar display - looks very nice. I will also have SD running with PAW so I can see PAW equipped aircraft.

I know the risk of a mid-air is very small but the above set up is a lot cheaper than a funeral should it ever happen! 

13

General Discussion / Re: Audible alarm

« on: April 14, 2016, 07:04:34 pm »

Rob,

I read on the SD site the position of SD is the SD software should not be deciding when to display an alarm its the job of the CWS to do that and SD just displays the instructions from the CWS - which is the FLARM concept which as you know is the interface PAW uses.

There are various learned articles around about how the Algorithm in systems such as FLARM work and it looks pretty complex so probably we will not see SD build it into the SD software any time soon if at all. What we need to do is see what the take up of PAW is and maybe SD (or of course another vendor) might / will enhance the support for PAW.

As you know the competition is LPAT from Nats and FLARM who want to move into the powered aircraft market as most gliders in Europe already have FLARM. I've looked at FLARM and the cost is about £2K so expensive but it is a CWS with functionality for ADS-B CW warnings also (apparently the RAF have already decided on FLARM but then they have lots of funding) - no idea what price point LPAT will be but NATS might subsidize it as its useful to them operationally and its on the standard 1090 which is a big plus point. Although having worked at NATS as the investment accountant some years ago I think the airlines might be against any subsidy as they will have to pay for it.

Time will tell and time to market might be a key factor.

14

General Discussion / When willl the PAW be ready?

« on: April 13, 2016, 08:48:36 pm »

Hi Lee,

I got the following email from the BMAA to say the process to enable ADS-B on my TRT800H was via a PAW. Seems a very strange process but hey I'm planning to buy one anyway just wondering when they will be available?
 
This was the email I got from the BMAA and I think the LAA have the same process:-

At the moment we are accepting applications for this (ADS-B) using the standard modification application form, and once received we are then completing an short inspection schedule to be signed by a BMAA inspector, together with verification of the ADSB out settings using a screen shot from a Pilotaware. There is currently no charge for this, provided both the Transponder and the GPS are already approved.
 
We will be publishing a standard minor modification application for this shortly.

Regards

Julian

15

General Discussion / Re: Display of Data in SD

« on: April 03, 2016, 09:40:21 am »

I phoned SD about another matter a week or so ago and mentioned PAW. They are very aware of it but the lady I spoke said there was no activity at present to do any changes for SD which I can understand until its known what the take up of SD users will be.

If you look at the SD user manual it states that the FLARM interface provides the data for the display including the GPS data (rather than any internal source). The standard SD system keeps the targets white unless one of the targets has an Alarm status sent by FLARM then it goes Red with a warning message.

This will all of course depend what Lee has coded into the interface sentences as the alarm status of each target is determined by FLARM and sent to SD to display. So if PW sends no alarms the targets will all stay white which would not really be of much use especially on a small screen with pilots of a certain age who cant read the numbers on screen without reading glasses.

Another point is if you look at the product reviews of the TM250 and PowerFlarm the most useful feature is the audio warning. That is, you keep your eyes out of the cockpit and only look at the system as a "heads-up" to any threats. If the SD cannot be made to send an audio alarm to the Headset when certain events occur then this would also not be good and might even be worse than nothing as it would not be good to have pilots looking at screens trying to read small print whilst other aircraft are in close proximity.

Of course the practical way forward is to all lets start using it and see what the issues are then develop it over time