Author Topic: When willl the PAW be ready?  (Read 55123 times)

exfirepro

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2016, 01:48:44 am »

If you built a PAW after this [State of the Union Address] date (so its currently ADSB only) then you will need a new Bridge and licence to pick up the P3i signals.

Keith Vinning
PilotAware Team

Keith,

Please understand this is not a complaint, I am merely seeking clarification to avoid confusion later as your answer to Alan G above didn't make this point clear.

I fully appreciate that those of us who built and continued testing using ADSB only PAW(s) after the 'State of the Union Address' need to buy new Bridges to transmit and receive the PAW P3i signals. After the 'SOU' this was always going to be the case. Like Alan G  however, I had understood that our existing 'beta development licences' would continue to work until their one year expiry date. Am I now right in understanding that these beta licences will ONLY continue to be valid for ADSB ONLY PAWs and that if/when we fit a new Bridge, the development licence will fall and we will have to purchase new 'full' licences to make the Bridges operational?

Of more immediate concern - your 'press release' implies that those of us who continued testing ADSB only units or doing Mode C/S development work and demonstrating / promoting PAW whilst waiting for the new Bridge will only be offered Bridges 'at the back of the queue' after the first 500 full kits have been put together, i.e. some two weeks after the first fully functional kits are released. This is in direct conflict with the fact that we were told from the start that all enquiries/sales would be dealt with strictly in order of registration on the PilotAwareHarware site and seems a bit of a harsh way to treat your loyal band of long-term testers!

Or am I misreading the 'press release'?

Best regards as always

Peter R

Bill Maxwell

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2016, 08:15:34 am »
Thanks Peter. Now trying to lash together the Pi's to obtain their respective MACs.

Bill

Keithvinning

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2016, 03:48:17 pm »
Hi Peter

Thanks for your email. Sorry that you have been somewhat confused by recent posts on the forum please let me help to make things clear.

Quote
I fully appreciate that those of us who built and continued testing using ADSB only PAW(s) after the 'State of the Union Address' need to buy new Bridges to transmit and receive the PAW P3i signals. After the 'SOU' this was always going to be the case. Like Alan G  however, I had understood that our existing 'beta development licences' would continue to work until their one year expiry date. Am I now right in understanding that these beta licences will ONLY continue to be valid for ADSB ONLY PAWs and that if/when we fit a new Bridge, the development licence will fall and we will have to purchase new 'full' licences to make the Bridges operational?

Worry not! Your fears on licensing are unnecessary and your original understanding is correct. In fact, its actually now going to be better than you thought. I will post the following message on the Latest News section so that others are not equally confused.

Post Beta Trial Licensing and Hardware Saleable Items

The beta trial of PilotAware will be coming to an end on 30th April 2016 and PilotAware Bridges and complete kits will soon be available through pilotawarehardware.com. During the beta trial there were early trialists who built complete units that included ADSB-In and P3i radios. Also there were those that have, on the advice given in the “State of the Nation Address” on 15th October 2015, built ADSB-In only units without P3i radios.

Firstly, to be clear, all beta trialists who supported the project and have registered for and obtained a licence up to 30th April 2016 will be issued with a licence that will be inclusive of the use of ADSB-In reception and P3i transmit and receive. Furthermore, all of these licenses will be re-set and extended so that they all expire on 1st May 2017. So this is a real bonus for all beta trialists who will be getting more than they expected in the way of the initial complementary license. ;D ;D

As far as the hardware is concerned, in order that we cater for the requirements of all, apart from accessories such as remote antennas, remote GPS etc. there will be 4 main saleable items that will be available from the website.

1.   Complete PilotAware Kits including recommended Rpi, Case, Bridge, WiFi, ADSB RTL-SDR, GPS, SD Card, firmware and power lead.
2.   *†Bridge units qualifying for a discount for beta trialists who built PilotAware units before 15th October and who return the ARF units to the Aviation and Hardware Technology PO Box which will be identified soon.
3.   *Bridge units for beta trialists that built PilotAware units after 15th October. No discount applies.
4.   Bridge units for new customers who want to build a PilotAware unit for themselves. This will require the purchase of a Bridge and a first year licence at £15 and £12 per year thereafter. Prices ex VAT.

*As identified above for beta trialists no licence renewal is required until April 30th 2017.
†Alternatively the qualifying discount can redeemed against a new Complete PilotAware Kit.
We have a list of who was issued with licences and on what date from our database.

Quote
Of more immediate concern - your 'press release' implies that those of us who continued testing ADSB only units or doing Mode C/S development work and demonstrating / promoting PAW whilst waiting for the new Bridge will only be offered Bridges 'at the back of the queue' after the first 500 full kits have been put together, i.e. some two weeks after the first fully functional kits are released. This is in direct conflict with the fact that we were told from the start that all enquiries/sales would be dealt with strictly in order of registration on the PilotAwareHarware site and seems a bit of a harsh way to treat your loyal band of long-term testers!

I guess from my post that it could be interpreted that the first 100 units were complete kits. This is not the case so sorry if this has also caused confusion. You will see from the 4 saleable items above that there are customers at different stages of engagement, all waiting patiently.

We do not want to be seen as disadvantaging any sector as all customers are important. Consequently 50% of the first batch will be built as complete kits and 50% will be available as Bridges only, of both full price and discounted variety.

We are encouraging our supplier to provide the second 400 Bridges as soon as possible as a follow on so that we can meet the demand and re allocate as necessary.

We really are working as hard as possible to get the units out to you juggling financial engineering and logistic issues on a daily basis. I hope that you can be patient for a little longer as we move to availability.
   
Quote
This is in direct conflict with the fact that we were told from the start that all enquiries/sales would be dealt with strictly in order of registration on the PilotAwareHarware site

This is not something that I recognise as the pilotawarehardware.com site registration was for communication when the units were available not for an allocation basis. To do this we would have had to distinguished between an enquiry and a sale by taking money which is something that we didn't want to do until we have product available.

I hope that this makes it clearer. More information will be available over the next week.

Keith Vinning
PilotAware Team


« Last Edit: April 29, 2016, 03:54:57 pm by Keithvinning »

AlanG

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2016, 04:46:41 pm »
Hi Keith

Thanks for your full and frank explanation of the current situation and your expectations for the next few weeks.  I'm sure that any impatience that may be coming through in anyone's posts is definitely not directed at the PAW team .  I, for my part, am just itching to get my grubby PAWs (pun intended) on  a fully functioning PAW in order to be able to demonstrate to anyone who I can capture for long enough to expound its virtues and persuade them to get one.

I had been hoping by now to have a fully functioning GPS attached to our transponder to enable further, more accurate range testing of the non-directional Mode C alerts but it looks like a fully functioning PAW might be first to arrive.

Congratulations to all for the great work.

Regards
Alan

Keithvinning

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 05:28:20 pm »
Alan

Thanks for your support as always

Keith

exfirepro

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 08:38:46 pm »
Hi Keith,

Thanks for your very open and comprehensive reply. As I said, I wasn't complaining, just getting a bit frustrated I suppose and possibly reading between the lines a bit and getting answers which weren't actually there. It's all much clearer now and I must say the intention to extend all beta licences 'til 30th April 2017 is a very generous and unexpected bonus.

As AlanG says, there was no criticism of the PAW Team intended whatsoever.  I know how hard you guys have all been working and certainly don't envy your daily 'juggling',  never mind the logistical nightmare of releasing a new and heavily anticipated product into such an enthusiastic market. I will try to restrain myself, but can hardly wait to get the full system running so I can show all those I've 'demo'd' the ADSB-only PAW to over recent months how effective it actually is in its fully functional form (and also so I can see AlanG sneaking up on ME for a change!!).  I even have an Air Avionics F---m dipole (left over from my now redundant -because it never worked properly - PowerFl--m) ready fitted and sitting waiting to connect up to my new PAW Bridge as soon as I can get it installed !

Keep up the good work, you have my full support as always.

Best regards

Peter


Keithvinning

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2016, 08:55:50 pm »
Thanks Peter

Good to clear things up and we are pleased that you appreciate the licence extension.

Cheers

Keith

Ian Melville

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2016, 08:18:12 am »
Hi Keith,
I brought a components to build two Pilot Aware units complete with ARF prior to 15th October 2015. In the end I only built, licensed and tested one unit because of the issues with the original ARF unit, and the subsequent State of Nation Address.

Would I be eligible for a license for both units, or do I need to apply for a second Beta Licence by COP today?

Bill Maxwell

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2016, 08:53:06 am »
I can confirm that the Beta licence system still worked as off a couple of hours ago.

I finally managed to make the time to get mine fired up. The first was very successfully completed, the MAC obtained, the licence application completed and the software key received. The second however has repeatedly failed the installation process, so I switched to a Pi 2B but have had the same result there. I suspect that I may have SD card issues, so I'm now going through the format and software loading routine on all SD cards that I can find here in the house, hoping to find another that will enable me to complete the installation process. I'm not getting very far into that at all and unfortunately I don't have a HDMI monitor handy to watch the process, so I'm dependent on the flashing green LED.

if I can't find one that works, my second unit may not make the Beta cut-off, as I wont be able to go and buy another SD card until the shops open tomorrow but that will be after mid-night, UK time. Frustrating!

Bill

Ian Melville

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2016, 09:02:51 am »
Bill, I may be wrong, but you don't have to get the unit working other than to get the MAC address. I don't think there is anything to stop you using the same SD card in both units?

Bill Maxwell

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2016, 09:10:25 am »
I had that same thought a short while ago Ian  but stopped short of trying it in case the SD card had been written to with essential files that might be corrupted if I tried to boot another of my Pi's.

I guess that I have nothing to lose by trying it. At least I now have the licence for that one, so it should be recoverable if I do damage something. Anybody else have a thought on this approach?

I now have the failed  Pib+ and three Pi 2B's lined up in front of me, all having quit the installation after just a few flickers of the green LED.

Bill

Ian Melville

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2016, 09:26:50 am »
Bill, I didn't change the original Working SD card. Just plugged it into the second RPi and booted with a LAN cable connected. Read the MAC off the router stats.

Bill Maxwell

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2016, 09:30:45 am »
I'll try it shortly, Ian. My wife has just managed to give the microwave oven convulsions by firing that up but having forgotten to put the food inside first. I'll have to go and see if I can salvage that now. Hopefully the arcing will be fixed by cleaning the waveguide mica cover but ...?

Bill

Bill Maxwell

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 09:33:09 am »
Meant to add that I dont have a LAN cable handy either.

Ian Melville

Re: When willl the PAW be ready?
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 09:45:12 am »
She wasn't trying to jam your PAW signals was she :-)