Ipad/iphone etc now take GPS position from PilotAware???

[Fleagle]

Hi
sorry if its been discussed before but I couldn't find it when searching. But in the 'prototype' pilot aware, it took its GPS position from the device it was connected to e.g.  an iPad and of course the navigation app such as sky demon would use the devices own internal location services GPS to plot your own aircraft location on the map.

Now of course though with PAW classic, it has its own GPS dongle and if I am not mistaken this has reversed the whole thing around and apps like sky demon no longer take their position from the iPad location services but from the PAW GPS dongle ??

am I right ?

thanks
Neil.

[AlanG]

Hi Fleagle

Not absolutely sure about SD as I use EasyVFR and in this you choose in the Flarm set-up whether to use the tablet GPS or Use Flarm GPS as EasyVFR GPS, but I believe you have similar choice in SD somewhere in the settings.  I tend to set it to use the Flarm GPS for the nav software as this means that both units are singing from the same hymn sheet and so that the relative altitude indicated to other traffic is from the same source.  Hopefully the PAW having its own Baro device on board will be a bit more accurate than the GPS only altitude. 
Only downside that I see is that should there be a problem with the connection between the PAW and the Nav software you lose your position on your screen until you reset it to use its own GPS.

Regards
Alan

[Paul_Sengupta]

Sky Demon doesn't have a choice, if you want FLARM traffic, you have to use the FLARM GPS.

Even with the prototype the position information came from the PilotAware, just that there was an app to feed it from the tablet. There's still an app to feed it from the tablet if you want, but it's easier and generally more accurate (than the tablet's in built GPS) to use the one on the PilotAware.

Back in the past I tested an iPad fed by a bluetooth GPS, sending the position from that to the PilotAware, then the PilotAware sending that back to the tablet. It worked, but there are several connections and batteries to go wrong!

[Fleagle]

Yeah with sky demon as soon as you select Flarm (which is what SD uses), then a message pops up briefly saying looking for satellites. You get no choice to continue using the devices location services. It was this message that suddenly made me realise that the app was probably now using the PAW gps dongle.

So I guess my concern is how accurate / reliable is this dongle when compared to
1) iPads own internal gps and
2) I normally Bluetooth my iPad to a Garmin  Glo which has a far higher refresh rate and is typically more accurate.

So in 2) does anyone know if the PAW would take precedence with the dongle gps providing all aspects of position or would the iPad continue to use the blue toothed garmin for position of my own aircraft in sky demon and the  PAW gps used   for broadcasting my position ( which potential maybe be different) via ADSB?

Thanks
Neil.

[Richard]

PilotAware GPS wins every time!!!. If GPS is lost in SD you simply select Location service from the Go Fly List and you up and running again. So you have a backup. Why would you want to carry extra device have more things to mess around with.

[Richard W]

> Why would you want to carry extra device have more things to mess around with
To get reliability, and a decent update rate.

[Admin]

Is the gps update rate from the ipad more than 1hz
Im not aware of that

Thx
Lee

[Richard W]

No, which is a good reason for having an external Bluetooth device, which can have a faster update rate.

[Allanf]

PilotAware GPS wins every time!!!. If GPS is lost in SD you simply select Location service from the Go Fly List and you up and running again. So you have a backup. Why would you want to carry extra device have more things to mess around with.

A big reason for using a Bluetooth connected gps such as the dual GPs 160 is that it features SBAS. Does anyone know if the PAW gps is SBAS enabled. If not could it be changed for one that does such as the Bad Elf ?

[JCurtis]

PilotAware GPS wins every time!!!. If GPS is lost in SD you simply select Location service from the Go Fly List and you up and running again. So you have a backup. Why would you want to carry extra device have more things to mess around with.

A big reason for using a Bluetooth connected gps such as the dual GPs 160 is that it features SBAS. Does anyone know if the PAW gps is SBAS enabled. If not could it be changed for one that does such as the Bad Elf ?

Yes the supplied GPS dongle supports SBAS.

For the benefit of those reading, SBAS is also known as WAAS or Differential GPS, in Europe it can be called EGNOS.  It is a means to broadcast correction data GPS from a geostationary satellite that improves the vertical resolution (GPS altitude) of a position.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Yes, if you have a good view to the south (the SBAS/EGNOS satellite is geostationary) you'll see on the homepage (192.168.1.1) under GPS it will show "DGPS" which shows it's receiving the satellite.

[Fleagle]

The iPad gps updates at once per second (as does the gps dongle supplied with the PAW). The Garmin Glo updates the iPad at 10 times per second.

Still my question is, if I have paired my iPad to a bluetooth gps receiver, when I connect to PAW where will my iPad gets its position from for my own aircraft to display in sky demon and where will it derive its gps position in order to broadcast to others over ADSB?  bluetooth or PAW gps dongle ?

While I appreciate the benefits of one device providing both - so they are both on a level playing field so to speak, I would much prefer the accuracy and speed of the garmin to provide at least the location of me on the SD app even if the iPad uses the position provided by the PAW gps to broadcast to others via the ADSB. Though I appreciate this sounds complex to implement. Ideally it would be good (sorry I know you guys have worked damned hard  ) if the PAW would optionally bluetooth to the Garmin then it would be job done.

thanks

[Paul_Sengupta]

Still my question is, if I have paired my iPad to a bluetooth gps receiver, when I connect to PAW where will my iPad gets its position from for my own aircraft to display in sky demon and where will it derive its gps position in order to broadcast to others over ADSB?  bluetooth or PAW gps dongle ?

It'll get it from the PAW GPS dongle if you select "Use FLARM" in Sky Demon. (wasn't this answered further up?  ) The PAW will get the position from the dongle too. If you select "Use position services" in Sky Demon it'll use the internal iPad or bluetooth GPS, but you won't get any traffic.

While I appreciate the benefits of one device providing both - so they are both on a level playing field so to speak, I would much prefer the accuracy and speed of the garmin to provide at least the location of me on the SD app even if the iPad uses the position provided by the PAW gps to broadcast to others via the ADSB.

This would be up to Sky Demon to implement, talk to Tim Dawson. I know in some other software (Easy VFR?) you can choose to take the position data from the bluetooth GPS/internal GPS and the traffic from the FLARM/PAW, but Sky Demon doesn't do that.

In terms of accuracy you won't find much difference between the Garmin and the dongle, they are both WAAS/EGNOS GPS receivers, so it's just the speed that's the issue.

If you want to make things complicated, and Lee still allows it in the PAW software, you can send the GPS position from the iPad to the PAW using an App called NMEA GPS I believe, but it introduces another two levels of unreliability into the equation. I wouldn't recommend it in a non-experimental setup.

The other thing is if the Garmin GPS has NMEA out on an RS232, you could feed this into an RS232/USB converter and feed the PAW with that, that's a PAW configuration option. I hav no idea what the refresh rate sent over the RS232 is though.

[Ian Melville]

Do you fly fast jets 'fleagle'?

Otherwise I can see no bring it in ten position updates per second. The Pi CPU would also have to process at that data, I suspect at detriment to something else.

[roweda]

I know in some other software (Easy VFR?) you can choose to take the position data from the bluetooth GPS/internal GPS and the traffic from the FLARM/PAW

I fly a PA-28 using EasyVFR and always use the GPS in my PilotAware unit, despite the fact that my iPad has an inbuilt GPS. No problems at all. It is a great feature which also allows pilots that have tablets without inbuilt GPS to avoid having to use an additional device such as a Bluetooth GPS.