Author Topic: COLOUR CHANGE  (Read 13284 times)

exfirepro

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2016, 11:47:54 pm »
Hi Peter (and all)
you recollection was correct, I just tried removing the REG from the imprecise traffic I send to SkyDemon, and now it is highlighted red/amber/green (again)

The downside, EasyVFR now only displays a banner in red/amber/green with relative height, but does not display the REG.
(your damned if you do, your damned if you dont)

So, what could we do here ?

1. We could lobby SD, EasyVFR, RunwayHD, to accept the REG without ignoring the threat level

2. I could make PilotAware behaviorally different for each vendor - (something I am reluctant to do)


(2) above can be accomplished by assigning each NAV tool a different PIN, eg
6000 - SkyDemon
6001 - RunwayHD
6002 - EasyVFR
....

Then I can behave slightly differently because I know what NAV tool I am talking to, this is not ideal because it means
messages are being interpreted differently

Thx
Lee

Lee,

As we already know, except for relative altitude we can't provide positional information for bearingless targets.

Our first and most important duty is therefore to give a simple and immediate indication to the pilot of the presence of a bearingless target and an indication of the level of threat presented, in order to get pilots looking outside the aircraft and finding and 'dealing with' any threat which becomes significant. In the case of ADSB / P3i, this is done automatically by the 'eye catching' moving visual graphic, normally well before it presents any significant risk.

Based on nearly 40 years service as an emergency services trainer, I am in no doubt whatsoever that (second only to motion) colour changing alert symbols - whether in the form of piggybacked aircraft, EasyVFR type 'Banner Alerts' or Paul's colour changing 'rings' - provide the quickest and most effective method of achieving this objective 'at a glance'.

With the exception of the EasyVFR 'banners', the only system providing risk level based alert for bearingless traffic at present is the audio alert sequence. This, however, is totally dependent on the PAW audio being properly connected to our aircraft audio systems and can be easily obscured by heavy radio or other audio traffic or simply turned off, e.g. by simply pulling the plug. In the event of loss of the audio alerts we are at present left only with a small immobile white graphic symbol, a relative altitude and a REG - which (although 'nice to know') is to my mind of minimal value in collision avoidance terms and which (unless you can get Tim Dawson to re-programme SkyDemon - which seems unlikely) I would happily lose in favour of getting back what was a clear graphic warning indicating the presence, relative altitude and degree of risk presented by the threat.

This would finally give us combined audio prompts and visual alerts, jointly indicating the degree of risk, supported by the relative altitude to guide the pilot's direction of search and advise on the likely course of action to maintain or increase separation to avoid collision.

REG or Visual threat level indication - IMHO No contest whatsoever.

Give us back the colour changing symbols, Please....

Alan, all you will lose is the REG, you will still have the colour changing banners!

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 10:20:18 am by exfirepro »

Paul_Sengupta

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2016, 12:39:19 am »
I vote for (1), get Tim Dawson to code it.

While he's at it, can you ask him to put the option of a white box around the traffic data so the reg/relative height can be read more easily?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:40:53 am by Paul_Sengupta »

Moffrestorer

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2016, 08:36:00 am »
Hi Peter,

I am also an EVFR user. Having the REG displayed on a threat banner is useful because it enables you to keep track of that particular threat, particularly if there then become multiple threats displayed..

exfirepro

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2016, 09:00:10 am »
Hi Chris,

I totally agree, being able to see the REG of the other aircraft can be very 'useful', especially with multiple or 'known' contacts - if you know you are on the same frequency you can put out a position report, for example, to let the other aircraft know where you are. Knowing the level of risk presented by an aircraft you can't see, however, I regard as essential.

My point is that if (as seems to be the case) we can't have both I would always recommend default to the colour changing threat level warning we previously had until we can get Sky Demon to give us what we actually want. So far, for some reason, Tim Dawson doesn't seem to want to play - and he does know what we are trying to do because I told him!

Don't look at it as a potential loss, simply a short term sacrifice for (hopefully) long term gain for us all. Remember, you might just be the aircraft we SkyDemon users don't 'see' quickly enough and there are an awful lot of SkyDemon users out there!

Happy and safe flying

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 09:15:42 am by exfirepro »

AlanG

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2016, 09:56:06 am »
Hi

Take the Easy way.  When your SD licence is about to run out have a serious look at EasyVFR.
As far as I can see it has all the major features of SD, the developers work well with their users and have already had good co-operation with Lee and its less expensive.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Works for me!!!

Alan

tnowak

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2016, 10:52:58 am »
I haven't trawled through all the posts on here but is the audio alert feature a wired output from PAW? I think it is.

Does anyone know if SD provides any kind of audio alert for PAW detected aircraft, like it does if you are approaching CAS etc.?
I can hear SD alerts from my Samsung S3 quite well even with my headset on. Just enough to know SD wants my attention!

Tony N

exfirepro

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2016, 11:10:43 am »
Tony,

PAW audio needs to be wired from the Pi audio jack. There have been a couple of requests for bluetooth, but Lee has said that would require major rework of the software, so not imminent.

Sorry, I don't know what SD provides by way of audio out. Flying an open cockpit flexwing I have always just relied on SD's banner alerts for prompts. I will investigate.
 
Regards meantime

Peter

the_top_pilot

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2016, 01:26:31 pm »
There are some Bluetooth audio transmitters available cheaply. They are self powered or run off USB. Add one of these and bingo a bluetooth PAW.

Steve

Admin

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2016, 01:53:12 pm »
There are some Bluetooth audio transmitters available cheaply. They are self powered or run off USB. Add one of these and bingo a bluetooth PAW.

Steve

I thought about this, but if you are using bluetooth headsets - who does the negotation ?
in other words you normally have some menu dialog on your host device that browses for BT devices and connects.

In this instance you effectively have 2 devices, how do they get connected ?

If it is your iPad or iPhone, not a problemn, but for a Bluetooth headset, the smarts need to be added to pilotaware to
browse to your headset and connect

Thx
Lee

Paul_Sengupta

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2016, 02:19:29 pm »
I believe with this sort of thing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5mm-Bluetooth-Music-Transmitter-Stereo-Audio-A2DP-Adapter-Dongle-AUX-Sender-/222120761313

You just press buttons for pairing with the receiver/headset. It would probably do the trick, but not as tidy as a proper coded bluetooth solution!  :)

exfirepro

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2016, 02:20:52 pm »
From the Mode C thread but very relevant here so dragged it across -


There was a discussion on another thread regarding Mode-S and the fact that we could display the following data

REG + ALT
or
ALT

Now call me a sceptic, but I believe if you are told a REG and an ALT, eg G-ABCD +200ft, you are much more likely to believe the validity of the information as opposed to an <ANONYMOUS> ALT, which I am sure many would put down to bugs / RF noise, if after many attempted sightings, nothing was forthcoming.

Lee

Good point Lee, you are of course correct, though for bearingless targets, threat level will always outweigh almost anything else (except relative height of course) - especially as we already had the threat levels displayed before you added the displayed 'REG' back in January - which is where this thread started.

Looks like we need to try another approach to Tim to try to persuade him to help sort this out. Maybe the 'threat' of customers moving over to EasyVFR might encourage him to work with you. Not that I'm suggesting trying to threaten him - obviously.

Regards

Peter

Admin

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2016, 03:10:45 pm »
I think during the 'early' days of this type f development, it is difficult to get all vendors to agree on the data format, until the technology starts to mature a little more.

So thinking on this a little further, I think the best approach is to have a default behavior in terms of the messages which are sent to the NAV device for depiction.
in addition to the ability to choose the best suited to the specific device, when the device PIN is selected to be one of the following

Code: [Select]
    NAV_SKYDEMON  = 6000,
    NAV_RUNWAYHD  = 6001,
    NAV_EASYVFR   = 6002,
    NAV_AIRNAVPRO = 6003,

so for example if you use EasyVFR/6000 - the banner will only show ALT-DIFF
but if you select EasyVFR/6002 - the banner will show REG/ALT-DIFF

and in the case of SkyDemon/6000 then the overlaid A/C will be colored

This allows further bespoke changes to be made if necessary

Thx
Lee

exfirepro

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2016, 04:03:09 pm »
Lee,

Can we move the 'bluetooth' stuff to a different thread before we get things even more complicated than they already are.

This is getting messy and I have a feeling bluetooth will run on and on.

Peter

Admin

Re: COLOUR CHANGE
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2016, 04:56:44 pm »