Aircraft turning red quadrant

[rogellis]

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I am a little confused as to which way the aircraft is supposed to be turning, when using the radar presentation.  In general the aircraft turns away from the red quadrant, but I have also seen them turn into the red quadrant.  Is there a standard presentation for turning...?

Rog

[rogellis]

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Another problem with the red quadrant is gliders thermalling.  Their high rate of turn is producing great wedges of red that run across the entire screen, obsuring the other contacts.  (The gliders were turning into the red quadrant.)

For gliding PAWS, the symbology for turning may have to be changed.  It is useful information, but perhaps a simple perpendicular arrow half way along the track-line (or at the end of the track-line) would be a better presentation.  (And not necessarily proportional to turn rate, otherwise the arrow will be too big). 

Or perhaps some other way of indicating a turn.

Rog

[Admin]

Hi Roger

Apologies, forgot to come back to this.
We could add another screen for gliders specifically

You probably know at the moment you can toggle between FLM and TAS mode.
If we could have a spec of what would be required we could have a new mode of GLD ?

alternately we could modify the behavior of the existing modes to reduce the ARC for a turn to some maximum.
The intention was to give an indication to the user that the A/C was in a turn, you dont get that information from
a static picture

another thought is there a better icon to annotate on the screen to indicate a turn ?
for ascent/descent there is an up/down arrow, maybe a circular arrow to indicate a turn ?

open to suggestions.

Thx
Lee

[rogellis]

Hi Roger

If we could have a spec of what would be required we could have a new mode of GLD ?

open to suggestions.

Thx
Lee

Thanks Lee.

We are at the beginning of the testing for gliders, so I will ask around for suggestions.  I am sure we can find a simple solution.    Some of the systems that may need tweeks are:

More symbols for different aircraft, so we can see a glider is a glider etc.
        (I think this is a project you already have in hand.)
Different way of indicating turning (as discussed).
Possibility of customising the green, amber and red warning zones around the glider (for adsb, flarm and paw contacts).

We ran the PAW unit last weekend with half a dozen Flarm gliders in close proximity, and I was pleased that the PAW did not give too many audio alerts, because the gliders were often staying in the same zone.  This was especially so when thermalling, but also when ridge running.   (This may be a problem with reducing alert zone sizes, you may inadvertantly increase the number of alerts, rather than reducing them....!). Another possible solution may not to give another alert for the same aircraft, for at least a minute or something. 

Some people may still say the PAW was chirping too much, but we shall see what they say after they have got used to it.   I will canvass opinions, and back to you if we get some good suggestions. 

Cheers,
Rog

[Admin]

Hi Rog,

Are you at the BGA AGM on the 17/Feb ?
If so we should meet up and chat about requirements

thx
Lee

[rogellis]

Are you at the BGA AGM on the 17/Feb ?
If so we should meet up and chat about requirements

Not at present, but I will look into it.

Cheers,
Rog

[rogellis]

Are you at the BGA AGM on the 17/Feb ?
If so we should meet up and chat about requirements

I should be at the BGA AGM.


Regards turning, would it be possible to simply show a curved predictive track-line to indicate the direction of turn, on the ‘radar’ display?  This is what commerial FMCs do, and it is quite an intuitive display symbolism. 

If the trackline curves to the left, the aircraft is turning left, and the greater the curve the greater the rate of turn.

R

[Admin]

Hi Rog

Can you provide a link to an image showing this type of display?

Thx
Lee

[PaulSS]

Is this any good. Trend vector shown in the beautifully drawn red 'circle' 

[rogellis]

Is this any good. Trend vector shown in the beautifully drawn red 'circle' 

Paul,

Yes, that is exactly how the Boeing Nav Display displays a turn.  Not sure why it is always three dashes rather than one straight line, but the symbolism of the curved dashed line is fairly clear.  And if course the radius of the curve is proportional to the turn rate, and so a gentle turn results in a nearly straight line.

And if you want to be really cute, the dashed line extending from your own aircraft symbol (on the ‘radar’ display), could also curve - just as it does on the Boeing Nav Display.

R

[PaulSS]

Yes, that is exactly how the Boeing Nav Display displays a turn.

I hope I'd know that; it's my day job 

Not sure why it is always three dashes rather than one straight line

Each dash is 30 seconds prediction, based on bank angle and groundspeed. Different map ranges have 1, 2 or 3 segments......a bit more than you're asking for

[Keithvinning]

One sky jockey talking to another ?

[rogellis]

One sky jockey talking to another ?

Hmm, yes, but this jockey did not know the dashes were 30 second segments.  You learn something every day....!

R