Audio Options

[PaulSS]

Yes, I'm afraid I'm still thinking of PAW audio options 

The aux in to the Trig radio is going to be used for the EFIS warnings etc and I really don't want to complicate matters with mixers etc, when there are other options available. So, radio aux is not really a player.

One option is to split the 3.5mm jack output and run two wires to an aux-in on the headsets. Unfortunately this, for me, means the Bose A20 when I'd prefer the DC One X (which doesn't have aux in).

Second option is to plug a Bluetooth transmitter into the 3.5mm jack and BT it to the headsets. I would have the BT transmitter plugged into a USB source so it can permanently charge. Good solution but I plan on having my PAW permanently mounted and hidden behind the panel. I THINK the BT transmitter's battery would discharge over a period on non-use i.e. no auto-shutdown when power is removed and would then need to be turned on once aircraft power is supplied (and USB powered). I'm assuming the pairing to the headsets would remain even if the battery did discharge but it could be a potential pain trying to locate it and turn it on. Not insurmountable but not ideal when you're working from a design clean sheet. PAW BT to headsets also means no Sky Demon BT audio. Again, not a huge deal but......

SO, onto my question    I'm stuck in a hotel in Japan at the moment and have no access to any of my gear, so I have to rely on you kind souls of the WWW but what I'd really like to know is if the PAW audio can be input to an iPad Mini via the 3.5mm jack (male to male lead) and then be 'rebroadcast' (with Sky Demon audio) via the iPad Bluetooth to the headsets. I think this would also allow the normal other iPad functionality, such as telephone, as it is the type that has a sim card in it. The iPad will be panel-mounted, so there's no problems with turning power on etc and no fiddling behind the panel. This also means I don't need an aux in to the headsets and can buy the ones I want, rather than ones I'd prefer not to. Another assumption here, that I can't test, is that two headsets can be Bluetooth(ed) to an iPad at a time.

Please note that I do appreciate all thoughts but really do not want to start installing switches or buttons into my, very clean design, panel. 'Stuff' is hidden to protect my OCD 



Edited to add: I've just been having a look at the Sky Demon manual and it talks about audio alerts for traffic, in the chapter discussing connections to the likes of PAW and the use of the Flarm protocol. As of yet, I have absolutely no experience of using SD and it is only something that I WILL be installing when I eventually get my aircraft etc.  If I read this correctly, SD uses the Flarm data to show the traffic on the SD screen and issue the audio warnings accordingly. I can only imagine that the Mode C, S, ADSB and PAW data are all being transmitted to SD via the Flarm protocol, so it won't miss out any of the warnings. In this case, is there any need to actually have an audio output from PAW via the 3.5mm jack? I know it says so on the PAW manual but I don't know how up-to-date that is compared with the latest software versions of PAW and SD etc. If SD is chucking out the same audio information then that would solve the problem without leads or BT transmitters from PAW, as the data will all be sent via WIFI and then one could just use the iPad BT to go to the headsets.

Or have I got it all wrong.......again 

[AlanG]

Hi Paul

I cannot be specific about SDs Audio outputs as i use EasyVFR as my Nav system of choice but your last edit just about hits the nail on the head except that I'm sure that the voice alerts from SD will be of their own making.  PAW outputs the code for these audio alerts to the Nav system along with the visual alert information.  What each Nav system does with that information is up to the developer of that software.  EVFR gives me traffic alerts of its own making along with all the other various audio alerts for Airspace, Obstacles, Waypoints, etc.  I'm sure SD will do something similar so you should be able to bluetooth that into your suitable headsets.
After various trials and tribulations, Bluetooth transmitter/receiver included, I do now use the Trig Aux. Input.  I am using a mixer but mainly so that I can choose which Audio source to use, PAW (direct from 3.5 output) or EVFR (from my tablet 3.5 jack).  Though the essence of the messages is the same, the wording is different.
The advantage of the Trig Aux is it is muted during normal radio RX/TX functions.
I have no idea if this is available via the bluetooth input on the headsets you're thinking about.
It's all a little bit suck it and see and I'm sure that once you get to play with it all for real things will become foggier before it becomes clear.   

Regards
Alan

[PaulSS]

Thanks for your reply, Alan. It is good to see that EVFR is producing the audio alerts and I'm pretty certain this is now the case with SD. I have written a quick note to them to ask specifically, as their manual spoke of audio warnings but there was no separate section where I could research the specifics. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that all this is true as then it'll be a very simple matter of iPad to headset via Bluetooth. The warnings etc would, in that case, be muted by ATC transmissions. It's also nice that when entering the circuit I'd be able to just press the BT button, thus disconnecting it and getting rid of the audio from PAW etc. The only minor, minor snag is that only one audio output can be piped to the headset over BT from the iPad (if I am correct in my understanding of BT), so the right seat will not get the PAW & SD audio. Since this will be my wife most of the time, I'm not worried as I think she'd rather sit in ignorance of impending mid-air collisions  I'll just pair her headset to her iPhone so she can listen to music or make a telephone call if required.

I wouldn't mind wiring up a 3.5mm jack 'system' (in fact I have all the bits and pieces required) but I just really don't want the Bose headset and, unfortunately, David Clark don't have the aux input. I know, I know, 1st world problems 

[exfirepro]

Paul,

I have never run my iPad with an audio out connection from SD in the plane, because I already have PAW audio straight into my intercom, but have been running the pad a lot recently for testing in the car.

The only audio alerts I get from SD in the car are various buzzer or klaxon type alerts. Come to think of it, I have often thought I was hearing high frequency pulses in the plane especially on the apron, which could have been alerts via the tablet speakers, but of course virtually inaudible in an open cockpit with full helmet.

I have never had any verbal audio alerts from SD (unlike EVFR, which definitely produces loads of detailed verbal audio warnings) as per Alan’s posts.

Hope this helps.

Regards

Peter

[PaulSS]

Thanks for your words of wisdom, Peter. I'm actually quite a bit less confident about the content of the SD audio warnings than I was a few days ago and although I cannot confirm anything at all, I believe it's a matter of a bing or a bong to draw your attention to the visual traffic warnings, instead of a "traffic, 3km etc etc". I say this because I have downloaded the very latest SD manual (16 Nov) and it talks of notifications and warning tones, which sounds suspiciously like the audio for airspace etc. I think the previous version of the manual may have suggested something a bit more complete but I cannot swear to that and wouldn't wager even half a beer on my memory or version of events.

I don't know if it's my machine but their forum just freezes and I can't see if anyone has answered my query there. The last time I looked there had been quite a few viewings but no replies, so maybe nobody has SD and PAW and knows what the audio warnings are like 

I did try emailing SD but got no reply at all.

I called SD and spoke to a lady there who didn't provide any information regarding PAW and SD. She said SD made sounds for notifications and was no more forthcoming than that. I particularly 'enjoyed' the extended silences when I thought she was going to provide more information but was obviously going to wait some time. So, pretty much a waste of a call from Oz to England 

The audio input to my Trig TY91 is going to be taken up by the EFIS and I'll be using the in-built intercom in the radio instead of having a separate intercom. And I won't bore everyone again with my mixer thoughts 

I like the sound (excuse any sorts of puns) of the audio provided by EVFR but it does seem to me that SD is the way to go for everything else and I'm pretty well decided that's what I'll do. Perhaps they'll develop such audio in time to come but, in the meantime, I will have to be satisfied with a bing and a look at my screen, instead of listening to Bitching Betty (or whomever the PAW lady is labelled).

Who would have thought a spot of audio would be so difficult 

[exfirepro]

Hi Paul,

You’ll get there eventually - wherever ‘there’ is!

Yes the SD forum was running extremely slow over the weekend and kept freezing / dropping out.

Ho.. Hum...

Regards

Peter

[PaulSS]

I thought I'd add a quick note to this topic, just in case anyone uses the search function in the future and wonders about the same things as I do 

My research has revealed that the current state of play with SD is a warning tone is produced for traffic, terrain and airspace which alerts you to look at the screen. There are, currently, no vocal warnings as per PAW.

I asked on the SD development page if the vocal warnings might be added and am delighted to see that Tim has responded with:

"We do intend to bring vocal annunciations into SkyDemon, which would include monitoring of all traffic in close proximity for sure."

This makes me a very happy person and I think it will assist many others in the future, not just for the obvious safety case of vocal warnings but, also, because it will simplify the way we can receive those warnings. More manufacturers are adding Bluetooth to their headsets and now it will be a simple matter of pairing your headset to your iPad/other tablet. No longer will it be a necessity to run wires from the 3.5mm jack to radios, intercoms or mixing boxes. This is great for the likes of me, who would like to keep the set up as clean and simple as possible BUT it also makes the features of PAW more transportable. You'll be able to take your PAW with you to the club Cessna and still have the vocal warnings over SD