aircraft reg doesn't show any more

[exfirepro]

Is there something within the PAW software that now excludes your own hex code even from the traffic page, thus requiring a separate PAW for the LAA Mod 14 approval?

On a related note, should I disable my ADS-B out until the mod has been signed off?  As I know the Funke defaults SDA and SIL to zero, that my tracking on FR24 is accurate and every radar station I have spoken to confirms my outputs as fine I have taken the view that, unless the regs expressly forbid otherwise (which if they do then I haven't yet seen this bit), then I will continue to run ADS-B out because of the safety enhancement it delivers and will get LAA approval just as soon as I can get my traffic page screen grab and convince my inspector to visit.

Best

Stu

Stu,

See my post above re your aircraft missing from the PAW traffic table.

As per my earlier posts above, unless it has changed since I last looked, the LAA MOD procedure itself requires the use of a separate PilotAware unit outside your aircraft to 'verify' your ADSB output. This is in itself a 'relaxation' from the original approval process, for ADSB Out driven by an 'uncertified' GPS source, which required you to fly a predetermined course across the south east of England agreed in advance with NATS, who would then 'confirm' the output of your ADSB. PilotAware were asked to include the ADSB Status Data in our Traffic Table so PilotAware could be used as an easily available 'across the country' alternative (for which now read 'replacement') way of confirming the accuracy and status of ADSB transmissions to support MOD applications.

WRT your second point, I would personally continue to use your ADSB Out but seek to obtain MOD approval at the earliest opportunity. Your Inspector would normally expect you to have done so by the time you next submit your aircraft for inspection anyway.

Regards

Peter

[sdkellner]

Stu,

See my post above re your aircraft missing from the PAW traffic table.

As per my earlier posts above, unless it has changed since I last looked, the LAA MOD procedure itself requires the use of a separate PilotAware unit outside your aircraft to 'verify' your ADSB output. This is in itself a 'relaxation' from the original approval process, for ADSB Out driven by an 'uncertified' GPS source, which required you to fly a predetermined course across the south east of England agreed in advance with NATS, who would then 'confirm' the output of your ADSB. PilotAware were asked to include the ADSB Status Data in our Traffic Table so PilotAware could be used as an easily available 'across the country' alternative (for which now read 'replacement') way of confirming the accuracy and status of ADSB transmissions to support MOD applications.

WRT your second point, I would personally continue to use your ADSB Out but seek to obtain MOD approval at the earliest opportunity. Your Inspector would normally expect you to have done so by the time you next submit your aircraft for inspection anyway.

Regards

Peter

Many thanks Peter, once again.  I suspect you may also be right about the transponder signal swamping the PAW antenna; they are very close. 

Best

Stu

[Giver]

Peter,

I put in all my correct information as you suggested and my aircraft is now missing in traffic and shows only as a aircraft in Sky Demon,
it is picking up other Mode S so all seems to be OK, i probably will need another PAWs unit to verify to my inspector that's mine is functioning correctly,
thank you for your input it's been very helpful,
two current screen grabs,


Ivor

[Giver]

second screen grab





Ivor

[exfirepro]

Thanks Ivor,

As I have said previously, that is the way it is designed to work. I can't say why your aircraft isn't appearing in the Traffic Table, except as surmised above. I clearly remember discussions with Lee about software changes to implement the filters when we were developing the Mode S and Audio Out functions and am certainly not aware of any software changes which would cause your aircraft not to appear in the Traffic Table. Mine still shows my own aircraft and I'm using the same software version in the plane that you have.

I have just re-read both the LAA and BMAA MOD procedures, both of which require the use of a separate PilotAware located away from the aircraft and observed by the Inspector to verify the ADSB Output. Speak to your Inspector and perhaps Brinsley or someone else local can help.

Let me know how you get on.

Regards

Peter

[sdkellner]

I went flying today and the flight recorded perfectly on FlightRadar 24; see attached screen grab.  This suggests that ADS-B out is working fine.

When I landed I managed to get a screen grab of my registration (G-UIRO) via a second PAW, separate to the one in my gyrocopter ; but this seems to show it as a PAW transmission and does not seem to recognise the ADS-B output - again see screen grab.

Peter I tried your suggestion of amending my hex code and registration in my own PAW but I still could not get it to appear on my own PAW traffic page.

I'm confused as to how to get a compliant screen grab so as to submit to the LAA as Mod 14.  It seems, from FR24 at least, that my ADS-B out is working fine, but my own PAW refuses to ever show my registration on the traffic page and a separate PAW defaults to only recording my PAW transmission and ignores any possible ADS-B output.

Best regards

Stu

[sdkellner]

BTW, in case anyone is wondering, the white segments of my FR24 tracks are where I went really low (below 10 feet) over the sand - the wonders of gyrocopter flying in this part of the world 

Stu

[AlanG]

sorry to be a party pooper but to know from FR24 that your ADSB is working you need to click on your aircraft and check that it is not just tracking you by multilateration of your ModeS transmisions.

Alan

[exfirepro]

Hi Stu,

Just back in from a day's childminding. Thanks for the update and screen grabs. I had it in the back of my mind that the FR24 tracks you reported previously could be from your Mode S via Multilateration as Alan has suggested and was thinking this again as I was reading your update. You would need to check by clicking on your aircraft and seeing what FR24 is reporting you as. If this was the case, however I would still have expected PilotAware to report your aircraft as Mode CS--P, though you might not of course have Mode C/S detection enabled in PAW. Are you aware that Mode C/S Detection is DISABLED by default to avoid confusing inexperienced users and must be enabled in the configure screen - normally by selecting 'Mode CS +Filter (Beta)' in the Mode CS Detect box, together with an appropriate 'Relative Altitude' and 'Range' setting. Perhaps you could confirm what Mode C/S settings are set in 'PAW Configure'. If Mode C/S is still disabled, I would suspect your aircraft is not transmitting ADSB, which we can then investigate.

Regards

Peter

[sdkellner]

Hi Peter and Alan

Attached is a screen grab of exactly the same flight flown a few months back before I had PAW and therefore without ADS-B out; it's a pure Mode S track via MLAT.  You'll see that I appear only very briefly.  This is how all my flights appeared prior to enabling ADS-B out, which is as I expected because in the gyro I fly low (nearly always below 1,000 feet), whilst MLAT requires at least 3,000 feet.  Once I enabled ADS-B out, all my flights appeared on FR24 in almost their entirety, with only the very, very low level bits missing, which is entirely as I would expect.

FR24's help pages describe MLAT triangulation as follows:-

'MLAT
In some regions with coverage from several FR24-receivers we also calculate positions of non-ADS-B equipped aircraft with the help of Multilateration (MLAT), by using a method known as Time Difference of Arrival (TDOA). By measuring the the time it takes to receive the signal from aircraft with an older ModeS-transponder, it's possible to calculate the position of these aircraft. Four FR24-receivers or more, receiving signals from the same aircraft, are needed to make MLAT work. MLAT coverage can only be achieved above about 3,000-10,000 feet as the probability that four or more receivers can receive the transponder signal increases with increased altitude.

Most parts of Europe and North America are today covered with MLAT above about 3,000-10,000 feet. There is also some MLAT coverage in Mexico, Brazil, South Africa, India, China, Japan, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia and New Zealand. More areas will get MLAT coverage as we continue to add new receivers to our network.'

My configuration settings are also attached in a screen grab.

After enabling ADS-B out I asked Hawarden, Liverpool and Shawbury to confirm ADS-B receiving OK.  Although none of them specifically said 'yes, we can see your ADS-B', they all said that the transmission was loud and clear.  It all points to ADS-B out working fine, but I just can't get the second PAW proof for the LAA.  Might there have been a software change that now excludes own transponder from even the traffic page, never mind the feed to SkyDemon etc?

In all other respects PAW seems to be working fine.  My flight yesterday took me past a major incident where there were two air ambulances and a police helicopter; I got traffic alerts for all three even though I was visual from miles out.  I could also see the ADS-B CAT and GA.

Best

Stu

 

[Admin]

Hi Stu

Where are you based - apologies if already asked, cannot find this in the thread

Thx
Lee

[sdkellner]

Hi Lee

I fly gyro (complete with PAW) out of Ashcroft and C182 (not yet fitted with PAW) out of Liverpool.

Best

Stu

[exfirepro]

Stu,

I'm extremely confused by these ongoing ADSB issues. As I said in an earlier post above, I can think of no reason why the software would exclude 'own transponder' (ADSB) from the Traffic Table as the filters have always been applied after the Traffic Table and Lee specifically adjusted PilotAware some time ago at the request of FASVIG to allow PilotAware to become the accepted method of confirming the status of non-certified GPS ADSB transmissions for MOD approval. I'm also pretty sure mine was still showing at the top of the Traffic Table when I looked last weekend or the weekend before and I have been using the current version of the Public Software Release 20170223 in the plane since it came out, except when testing any new developments.

I was flying today, but with a young ATC Cadet in the back seat on only his second flight and having to negotiate bad weather and a prolonged hold while transiting the Edinburgh Overhead, I'm afraid checking my Traffic Table slipped my mind. I will however try to get back down tomorrow and check this specifically - even if as seems likely, the wind precludes actually doing so in the air.

Bear with me,

Regards

Peter

[Ian Melville]

Total wild card, but could it make a difference if the transponder is, or is not being interrogated by the radar head.

[exfirepro]

Ian,

If the transponder isn't being interrogated, it will not transmit a Mode S response, but ADSB is completely independent of Radar interrogations and transmits automatically.

I'm going to head back down to the airfield this afternoon to carry out some further tests and will report back later.

Peter