Author Topic: aircraft reg doesn't show any more  (Read 22778 times)

Giver

aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« on: April 09, 2017, 05:55:26 pm »
Hi Guys
i have just fitted a paws unit to my aircraft and before installing it i had it running fine with my reg showing in traffic and also in sky demon,
decided on a permanent installation so shorten the Aerial leads, made up a permanent cage for the pi micro computer, run power through an 12volt to 5 volt transformer,
 it all powers up nicely but it will not show my registration no on Skydemon, other traffic and Mode S shows clearly but in traffic my aircraft is missing,
any ideas?
i have ordered an USB cable to take the GPS signal from the PI direct to my Trig 21 that has just been updated to the latest software available,
The trig 21 is showing coordinate and appears to be working normally,
appreciate any pointers on where to look next,
have included a picture of when it worked last week,
Ivor

exfirepro

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 06:10:54 pm »
Ivor,

That's correct!

Your aircraft is listed in the PAW Traffic screen as ADSB Out (Mode = CSA - -), with the correct ADSB Data for ADSB driven by a 'non certified' GPS source. The Traffic Screen is only a 'collection box' containing all aircraft 'picked up' by PAW. Being the strongest local signal by virtue of your ADSB Out, your aircraft usually shows at the top of the traffic table. The traffic in this screen is then processed and filtered by PAW, with all ADSB and PAW (P3i) less those filtered (which includes your own aircraft as it does not present a risk), plus the 'highest risk' bearingless target (Mode C or S) being transmitted to your Audio and Navigation Systems. These are then displayed, together with Relative Altitude, plus Aircraft Reg, Flight ID or both Alternating - depending on your chosen Configuration Setting. Your own aircraft automatically shows at the centre of your SkyDemon (or other) Navigation System screen by virtue of your GPS position, but YOUR registration does NOT appear on your own Nav Screen.

Regards

Peter

« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 06:23:19 pm by exfirepro »

Giver

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 07:13:29 pm »
peter
thanks for that but how will i show my inspector that it is showing in traffic to get it ok'd by the LAA?
I did turn of  mode S filtering assuming it would show then, I also replaced my Hex no with the random generated one,  .......      both to no avail
does it mean i will need another PI unit to document what mine is doing?
thanks for your help.

ivor

exfirepro

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2017, 12:35:04 am »
Ivor,

Sorry, I didn't realise that's what was worrying you. I obviously misunderstood that your original concern was that your aircraft registration no longer appears on SkyDemon, when you obviously meant 'no longer appears in your 'PilotAware Traffic Display'.

Your Aircraft Reg could only ever have appeared on SkyDemon if your PilotAware was running with a different hex code from your transponder - e.g. the original randomly generated PilotAware Code. This would result in PilotAware seeing your ADSB transmission as a threat and displaying its details (including your Reg) on SkyDemon as a small (probably red) aircraft right on top of your own aircraft symbol at the centre of the screen, which would have explained the initial description you gave.

The screen grab you posted....
Quote
'a picture of when it worked last week,'
...clearly shows that your transponder was transmitting ADSB Out (Mode = CSA - -), and the 3rd and 5th entries in the ADSB Status column of the Traffic Screen clearly indicate that it was transmitting the correct SDA and SIL codes as '0', which are required for ADSB out transmission using a non-certified GPS source, so you must have had your PilotAware connected to the transponder and correctly configured for ADSB transmission at the time that screen grab was taken.

Changing PilotAware to the correct ICAO Hex Code for your aircraft 'later on' to match the one in your transponder, would stop this 'rogue' aircraft (and associated Reg) appearing on your Navigation Screen as it would then be correctly filtered out by PilotAware, though it would normally still show at the top of your Traffic Table. I have to say that although my ADSB Transmission is usually visible at the top of the Traffic Table, it does occasionally disappear and I'm afraid I have no idea why.

It may of course be that there is a fault with your setup or wiring, stopping the data from PAW reaching the transponder. Double-check you have the CORRECT USB port configured for the ADSB out lead to your Transponder (if this is  the 'top left' port with the Ethernet port to its immediate left, this is PORT 1) - that you have correctly saved the settings (screen grabs of appropriate screens would help here) and that there is no problem with the connecting cable.

Turning off 'Mode S' by the way doesn't turn off the filtering, it turns Mode S Detection off completely, so that won't help.

With regard to your most recent post....

Quote
how will i show my inspector that it is showing in traffic to get it ok'd by the LAA?

does it mean i will need another PI unit to document what mine is doing?

If I recall correctly, the LAA mod procedure actually requires that a separate PilotAware is used to show your ADSB data transmission and in particular the SDA and SIL coding of your installation, (the 3rd and 5th entries in the ADSB Status column of the Traffic Screen), presumably to ensure that the data is genuine. You could show the screen grab which already shows this data, confirms your transmitted Latitude, Longitude and Altitude and is time and date stamped, to your LAA Inspector and ask them if they would accept this as sufficient evidence to support your ADSB Mod application. They may however insist that this is repeated using a separate PilotAware so they can see for themself that the data is genuine before signing off your Mod. In this case you might need to elicit the assistance of another PAW user, which you could do through this forum. Unfortunately Kent is a bit too far away for me I'm afraid, but I know there will be other local users. They do not need to be connected for ADSB Out themselves, just able to provide a screen grab of your aircraft data from their Traffic Screen

Hope this helps clarify the situation. Sorry again for the earlier confusion.

Regards

Peter

brinzlee

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 08:51:56 am »
Hi Ivor

I'm based at Southend EGMC if you need another PAW to verify your data....If that's any use to you ??

Brinsley

Giver

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 09:04:22 am »
Peter,

thank you for your very detailed response,  i am renewing my permit this month so will speak to my
inspector about Mod 14 sign off before doing anything else,



regards
ivor

Giver

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 09:09:00 am »
Brinsley

thank you for your kind offer, I may take you up on it if my LAA inspector won't accept my screen
grabs as proof,


regards
Ivor

sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2017, 12:55:02 pm »
I have experienced exactly the same issue as Ivor since I installed my PAW.  Previous threads have covered the problems I had connecting my PAW to my Funke TRT800H, and then the faulty ADS-B dongle, but all is now working fine - apart from the fact that my registration has never appeared on the PAW traffic page.  I had concluded that I had to use a second separate PAW to get the screen grab required by the LAA, and have been waiting to bump into someone with a working PAW ever since.

I am almost 100% sure that my transponder is correctly broadcasting ADS-B because every flight I do appears in its entirety on FlightRadar24; prior to ADS-B I'd get only the odd segment when I was high enough for my Mode-S broadcasts to be triangulated.

Is there something within the PAW software that now excludes your own hex code even from the traffic page, thus requiring a separate PAW for the LAA Mod 14 approval?

On a related note, should I disable my ADS-B out until the mod has been signed off?  As I know the Funke defaults SDA and SIL to zero, that my tracking on FR24 is accurate and every radar station I have spoken to confirms my outputs as fine I have taken the view that, unless the regs expressly forbid otherwise (which if they do then I haven't yet seen this bit), then I will continue to run ADS-B out because of the safety enhancement it delivers and will get LAA approval just as soon as I can get my traffic page screen grab and convince my inspector to visit.

Best

Stu

Admin

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2017, 02:16:11 pm »
I am not totally sure, but it may exclude your own ICAO code from the traffic screen AND the NAV device.
Can you try changing the ICAO code on the configure page, to something other than your own ID ?


sdkellner

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2017, 02:57:48 pm »
I am not totally sure, but it may exclude your own ICAO code from the traffic screen AND the NAV device.
Can you try changing the ICAO code on the configure page, to something other than your own ID ?



Good idea; will try on next flight and report back.

Stu

Giver

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2017, 08:02:48 pm »
hi guys
interestingly today i fitted the farnell usb/serial lead to use the GPS mouse,  After fitting and changing
a few things in the configure screen i managed to get my registration to show on both Traffic and sky demon,
 also on sky demon it showed my Hex no every now and then for about 10 minutes then reverted to not showing in traffic or sky demon, have included some pictures you may find interesting,

Ivor

Giver

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2017, 08:17:23 pm »
picture to show registration,







ivor

Giver

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2017, 08:20:46 pm »
the last one show just my Hex code,



ivor

exfirepro

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2017, 11:57:30 pm »
hi guys
interestingly today i fitted the farnell usb/serial lead to use the GPS mouse,  After fitting and changing
a few things in the configure screen i managed to get my registration to show on both Traffic and sky demon,
 also on sky demon it showed my Hex no every now and then for about 10 minutes then reverted to not showing in traffic or sky demon, have included some pictures you may find interesting,

Ivor


Ivor,

Sorry, you have lost me a bit here. Why would you need to fit a Farnell usb/serial lead to use a gps mouse? Or do you mean you fitted the Farnell USB to Serial lead to allow you to use the PilotAware GPS to generate 'ADSB Out' from your transponder. You say 'After fitting and changing a few things in the configure screen i managed to get my registration to show on both Traffic and sky demon.' so I assume you made these changes to your PilotAware setup deliberately to get your Aircraft Registration to show on SkyDemon? If so, you have simply confirmed the point I made to you in an earlier post, that your own aircraft Registration and Altitude can ONLY appear on SkyDemon if you are running the wrong Hex Code in your PilotAware or Transponder or both.

Your Configure Screen clearly shows you were running PilotAware using an Auto-Generated Hex Code (8B6FAB) when it should of course be running the ICAO Hex Code for your aircraft (404416).

Group ID is designed to identify other PAW equipped aircraft who are part of a group. My club might for example use 'EOSM' as our 'Group ID' on a fly-out and all other EOSM group aircraft then show on the Nav Display as for example #G-ABCD#, #G-EDOR#, etc., making them easier to pick out on a busy screen. Otherwise you should leave this set to the default 'PAWGRP', which will rapidly identify any other PilotAware aircraft (if also using 'PAWGRP') by enclosing their callsigns in 'hash' brackets on your display.

With 'Display Traffic Info' set to 'Reg ID' - normally only the 'Reg ID' of other aircraft will be displayed. This is generated by comparing Hex Codes received from other aircraft with PAW's internal database. If for any reason a match cannot be found, PAW will default to displaying the Raw 'HEX ID' instead - which is obviously what happened in your last screen grab.

If you are running a Mode C or S transponder (or ADSB Out via a Mode S transponder), 'Mode CS Detect' MUST be set to 'Mode CS +Filter (Beta)', or PilotAware will see your own transponder's Mode C 'altitude' transmissions as being from a potential threat aircraft - even if you have your Hex Code correctly set.

The SkyDemon screengrabs therefore show your ADSB transmission as a threat aircraft (the small red one) located directly above your own aircraft. The Registration / Hex ID and Relative Altitude are all from that presumed 'Threat Aircraft' NOT your 'own aircraft', due to the fact that you were running the auto generated Hex Code in PAW and were not running the correct Mode CS Filter.

I'm not convinced that this will help convince your inspector that your systems are correctly configured.

A screenshot of your Home and Traffic Pages from today would have helped us to determine what else was going on.

Regards

Peter

exfirepro

Re: aircraft reg doesn't show any more
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2017, 09:15:18 am »
I am not totally sure, but it may exclude your own ICAO code from the traffic screen AND the NAV device.
Can you try changing the ICAO code on the configure page, to something other than your own ID ?

Lee,

I'm currently running the latest public release (version 20170223) in the plane. I don't have any recent Traffic Table screengrabs to show it, but my aircraft was still showing on the Traffic Table last time out - as Ivor's was in his first Traffic screengrab. Both my devices have the same (correct) ICAO Hex. As I said elsewhere, my aircraft does very occasionally disappear from the Traffic Table for some inexplicable reason, but is usually there reliably right at the top with its nice red 'Danger Alert' signal strength box and associated ADSB Data. I wonder if this could be something to do with antenna proximity - i.e. a strong transponder signal swamping the PAW SDR receiver.

Regards

Peter