Echo-ATT-20B

[tnowak]

This is getting some publicity now:
http://www.uavionix.com/products/echo-att-20b/

Seems it's an ADS-B In and ADS-B out device, but not a transponder.
Looks like it's what the LPAT was going to be but use your own display device.
Tony Nowak

[exfirepro]

This is getting some publicity now:
http://www.uavionix.com/products/echo-att-20b/

Seems it's an ADS-B In and ADS-B out device, but not a transponder.
Looks like it's what the LPAT was going to be but use your own display device.
Tony Nowak

Hi Tony,

That's pretty much what it is. It's advertised on the uAvionix website as 'The World’s First Approved Portable ADS-B Out Solution' - built to comply with UK CAP 1391 (the LPAT standard).

As you have presumably discovered, the unit is currently ONLY available via Amazon UK Marketplace, sold Direct by uAvionix from the USA and re-branded as 'SkyEcho' - presumably to avoid confusion with Amazon's new 'Echo' voice controlled music and data system.

When I first downloaded the Installation and User Guide from the uAvionix website late last year, it appeared that the unit couldn't be used with a Mode S Transponder, due to the limitation which precludes the transmission of the aircraft ICAO Hex address from more than one 1090MHz device at any one time. In response to a question I posted on Amazon at the start of December however, uAvionix advised that the software has been updated to allow the Echo's transmitter to be turned off if you already have a Mode S transponder running, so only one 1090MHz device will transmit the ICAO Hex address. In this case the Echo becomes a relatively expensive ADSB Only Receiver.

Whilst the price seems reasonable for a 1090MHz LPAT device (albeit without the anticipated inbuilt display), it is still not clear whether the advertised price covers UK Import Duty and VAT or whether this is extra. I have posted a question to clarify this on the Amazon website and am awaiting a reply.

FYI it is compatible with SkyDemon, which has been restructured to run the GDL90 data protocol, as well as several other common US Nav Systems. I am not sure about current compatibility with other common UK Nav Systems.

Personally, I'm sticking with my Trig ADSB-Out and PilotAware.

Regards

Peter

[AlanG]

Hi Guys

I can confirm that the latest release of EasyVFR (just a couple of days ago) is also compliant with the GDL90 protocol.
Not that I am in any way advocating the use of the Echo-ATT-20B, Like Peter I'm already ADS-B equipped and therefore will stick to my PilotAware.  You can however now connect your PAW to EVFR and feed all of this data to your EFIS if you're fortunate enough to have one. 
Not enough panel space left in my flexwing.   

You pays your money and takes your choice!!!!!!!!

Alan

[tnowak]

Yes, it does seem to be priced on the high side but everyone knows that anyone who flies has stacks of cash available....................!
 I expect the certification costs were significant and will probably account for £100 (minimum) to the cost of each unit sold.
You only need to read the specification page of a Trig TT21 transponder to see the range of tests that have to be carried out to meet compliance/certification requirements.
Then add all the other company related costs (R&D, manufacture, testing and mark-up) and cost soon spirals up.

Tony

[JCurtis]

...to see the range of tests that have to be carried out to meet compliance/certification requirements.
Then add all the other company related costs (R&D, manufacture, testing and mark-up) and cost soon spirals up.

Tell me about it! 
To the point of setting fire to things to ensure they don't self combust, and I am only testing to a small part of ETSO-C71.
Once you jump through the hoops you discover they have found some more down the back of the sofa.

[exfirepro]

Hope that's a non-flammable sofa Jeremy 

Regards

exfirepro

[Seanjd]

Well I have just received the Echo ATT20B 

I currently have a power issue and think it is battery related, but hope to do some ground testing very soon and see how it integrates with PAW and SkyDemon.

I am not Transponder equipped.

[exfirepro]

Sean,

I presume you purchased it via the Amazon UK Marketplace? If so, what was the situation regarding UK Tax and Import Duty? I tried to find out whether these are covered by the quoted price but uAvionics  haven't replied to my enquiry.

Regards

Peter

[Admin]

Hi Sean

I am very interested to hear your findings.
It appears there is a serious flaw regarding the altitude reporting for skyecho,
This is due to the fact it has no barometric sensor
Details here

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102806&hilit=Pilotaware&start=60#p1512134

This will be most prominint on days when the pressure is significantly off from 1013.25

Thx
Lee

[Seanjd]

Sean,

I presume you purchased it via the Amazon UK Marketplace? If so, what was the situation regarding UK Tax and Import Duty? I tried to find out whether these are covered by the quoted price but uAvionics  haven't replied to my enquiry.

Regards

Peter

No duties added on my delivery and unit arrived within a week from ordering.

[Seanjd]

Hi Sean

I am very interested to hear your findings.
It appears there is a serious flaw regarding the altitude reporting for skyecho,
This is due to the fact it has no barometric sensor
Details here

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102806&hilit=Pilotaware&start=60#p1512134

Thx
Lee

Well the power issue was/is with the battery connector on the battery. Have got it working now in my dining room and connects and working with SD ok.

Not sure on how to use the ATT20B and PAW together though, as ATT20B connects via GDL90 and PAW via FLARM on SD 

[Admin]

Not sure on how to use the ATT20B and PAW together though, as ATT20B connects via GDL90 and PAW via FLARM on SD 

Hi Sean
I think you will need 2 devices to run side by side
You could connect from a PC and connect to the radar screen or traffic screen on PAW

thx
Lee

[exfirepro]

Thanks Sean,

Just wanted  to check. Still sticking with PilotAware personally, as I don't need another ADSB transmitter (edit: or receiver!!). Also concerned about the lack of Barometric sensing as this will mean your reported altitude could be considerably different from that of the majority of other ADSBs which are derived from transponders.

Let us know how you get on.

Regards

Peter

[AlanB]

Hi Sean

I am very interested to hear your findings.
It appears there is a serious flaw regarding the altitude reporting for skyecho,
This is due to the fact it has no barometric sensor
Details here

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=102806&hilit=Pilotaware&start=60#p1512134

This will be most prominint on days when the pressure is significantly off from 1013.25

Thx
Lee

From CAP 1391

AMC 1391-4.12: Altitude data
Refer to RTCA DO-260B/EUROCAE ED-102A §2.2.5.1.5 a. for pressure altitude or b. for GNSS HAE.
It is envisaged that a Basic/transmit-only device would report GNSS height, whereas a more elaborate Intermediate device may use a barometric altitude sensor. Suitable provision to set up an EC device incorporating a barometric altitude sensor should be  made, ie as part of a status display. Also, the operating manual should provide sufficient information for this to be practically achievable.

If capable, the EC device may provide GNSS Height Above the Ellipsoid (HAE) in accordance with RTCA DO-260B/EUROCAE ED-102A §2.2.5.1.5 b.

So entirely within the specification of the CAP on the device approval  and therefore an assumption that the device providing the alerts/display resolves the difference.

IMHO therefore not a flaw in the design.

[Seanjd]

Not sure on how to use the ATT20B and PAW together though, as ATT20B connects via GDL90 and PAW via FLARM on SD 

Hi Sean
I think you will need 2 devices to run side by side
You could connect from a PC and connect to the radar screen or traffic screen on PAW

thx
Lee

Thanks Lee

Still playing, so have PAW connected to Tablet and ATT20B to phone. SD running on both and showing ALT difference of 10ft on first reading and 20ft on second reading. QNH1021 and not changed between readings. On the ATT20B 'APP' the Altitude/GPS was 220 on first reading and 215 on second reading.

Will do some testing over the next few weeks before trying in flight.

Sean