The latest version and FLARM

[exfirepro]

Same lead Mike - colours should therefore be the same.

Regards

Peter

p.s. well done Richard.

[Richard]

Peter/Mike
    Yes that's the correct lead. Have fun.....

[drvale]

To add an lustration to my last post that hopefully explains the intention better.

[exfirepro]

While on this subject and in the same vein. I currently have a Power Flarm connected to an MGL iEFIS via RS232. The MGL iEFIS has a menu setting to accept Power FLARM input and does so without hesitation. I also have the PAW that currently via WiFi provides all the PAW features to SkyDemon on an iPAD via WiFi.
The latest PAW apparently allows the addition of a FLARM Dongle - which product is this? However by adding this to the PAW will I guess use up all my USB ports.
So to get an RS232 output in a compatible Power FLARM output I would need an USB - RS232 converter and an extra USB port. The essential elements are therefore to obtain a dual full FLARM, ADS-B to both the iEFIS and SkyDemon are:
1) if I replaced the Power FLARM with a FLARM Dongle into the PAW. ( hopefully selling the former on EBay to fund the latter)
2) added a USB Hub to give an additional USB port
3) added a USB to RS232 converter ( already got one)
4) connected RS232  to MGL iEFIS using existing Power FLARM setting. ( Noting that both PAW and Power FLARM can communicate to SkyDemon via FLARM protocol and Butterfly Connect can do RS232 to SkyDemon via WiFi also)
5) Assuming RS232 out from PAW is a simple TX - RX, GND and not asynchronous.

Theory says it should work and as the claim is that the PAW has four potential output nodes then A = WiFi to SkyDemon, B = WiFi for Radar output, C = RS232 to iEFIS and D = the weather data you have not developed yet!!

So if this is doable will someone let me know please.

Hi drvale,

Here's me thinking I have a load of kit. Looks like you're trying to outdo me!

We generally suggest using a basic FLARM transceiver (LXNav flarmMouse in my case - others are using LXNavigation FLARM Redbox) supplying data in to PAW via an RS232 to USB converter. In your case, as you already have PowerFlarm feeding your iEFIS via RS232, I would have thought it would be easy to simply 'split' the data feed where it comes out of your PowerFLARM, with one feed going to your iEFIS and the other, via an RS232 to USB converter to PAW. This should work, though I haven't tested it, but am about to run tests (hopefully in the next few days) to split the data from a PowerFLARM Core to feed the existing FLARM display and a PilotAware (to let the owner receive P3i and also run multiple displays via WiFi I will let you know how I get on.

PAW can serve 4 clients via WiFi concurrently BTW. This does NOT affect USB inputs/outputs. I seem to recall Lee saying some time back that you can't add a USB hub to the Pi. I can't remember why and might be wrong though. I'm sure he will come on and advise.

Regards

Peter

[drvale]

Peter,
In theory this sounds a dead simple solution and maybe at this RS232 level would work wonderfully! My formal life involved controlling robots with RS232 and splitting caused all sorts of issues, however we were using handshaking as well RTS etc.
FLARM somewhere in its documents says that the signal should not be split, but of course that could just mean Air Avionics worried they may not be able to rip off customers. After all it is already split because the Air Connect can send to WiFi and RS232 to MGL as there are two ports!.  In my simple mind this is already split!
I can of course thinking about this logically and having had a couple of glasses of red wine resolve this simply - MAYBE The Butterfly RS232 WiFi is no longer used as the iPAd now is dedicated to the PAW. SO Spare PAW port needs a USB / RS232 converter and Connect FLARM TXD to PAW RCD plus GND.
Only slight (hopefully) issue is the Power FLARM also throws out ADS-B stuff which means I would be duplicating data arriving at the PAW. Also I would not be getting mode C & S in the MGL as it is only taking data from the POwer FLARM.

So here is another possible.
Power FLARM TXD to Spare PAW port via RS232 RCD then using same RS232 connector, TXD output MGL iEFIS. Theory says the PAW becomes the source of both data sets to WiFi and also RS232 to MGL. Sounds sound, but not sure from a PAW software aspect.

[exfirepro]

Peter,
In theory this sounds a dead simple solution and maybe at this RS232 level would work wonderfully! My formal life involved controlling robots with RS232 and splitting caused all sorts of issues, however we were using handshaking as well RTS etc.
FLARM somewhere in its documents says that the signal should not be split, but of course that could just mean Air Avionics worried they may not be able to rip off customers. After all it is already split because the Air Connect can send to WiFi and RS232 to MGL as there are two ports!.  In my simple mind this is already split!

FWIW, I used to run a PFC with 'AA' splitter to feed Butterfly and a Flarm LED display, but gave up due to problems with the PFC and moved over to PilotAware. I have now 'expanded' to incorporate Flarm again and use a simple splitter to split the data going from my FlarmMouse to my LXNav LED display to also go via an RS232 to USB converter to feed the PAW and it seems to work fine.

I can of course thinking about this logically and having had a couple of glasses of red wine resolve this simply - MAYBE The Butterfly RS232 WiFi is no longer used as the iPAd now is dedicated to the PAW. SO Spare PAW port needs a USB / RS232 converter and Connect FLARM TXD to PAW RCD plus GND.

That's effectively what I'm hoping to do with the PowerFlarm Core. Our CFI wants to be able to run multiple tablet displays when he's off touring with his better half. He has already tried parallelling 2 x 'Butterflies' but that doesn't work, so hopefully replacing the Butterfly with PAW will let him connect up to 4 devices via PAW WiFi and also see P3i aircraft as a bonus.

Only slight (hopefully) issue is the Power FLARM also throws out ADS-B stuff which means I would be duplicating data arriving at the PAW.

I have already discussed this with Lee and we are pretty sure this should not cause a problem, but the proof will of course be in the testing!

Also I would not be getting mode C & S in the MGL as it is only taking data from the POwer FLARM.

So you are presumably using a 'Basic' PowerFlarm rather than PF Core?

So here is another possible.
Power FLARM TXD to Spare PAW port via RS232 RCD then using same RS232 connector, TXD output MGL iEFIS. Theory says the PAW becomes the source of both data sets to WiFi and also RS232 to MGL. Sounds sound, but not sure from a PAW software aspect.

I'm not up to speed with data supply to your MGL and not something I have tried, so can't really advise. I have a suspicion that trying to supply data in and back out via the same port might be an issue. Let me do the PFC tests and I will have a better idea as to what works and what doesn't. Bear with me.

Regards

Peter

[Ian Melville]

Drvale,

I have done splitting on tests with PAW  and othe devices, works fine. No hand-shaking involved, or it would never work. Don't try and drive too many devices as it may cause the signal to degrade.

[drvale]

Peter,

Thanks for rapid response. PF is Core, currently uses Port 1 for RS232 to MGL and Port 2 for the Air Connect. I will plan to take Port 2 to the PAW which will then give me at least the extra of FLARM info on the iPad. But of course it would be nice to match both sets of data.
So now all I need to think about is taking the Radar Display into the MGL, just needs a PAL output from cheap WiFi enabled browser and direct into 1 of 4 of the Video inputs on the MGL.

[exfirepro]

Peter,

Thanks for rapid response. PF is Core, currently uses Port 1 for RS232 to MGL and Port 2 for the Air Connect. I will plan to take Port 2 to the PAW which will then give me at least the extra of FLARM info on the iPad. But of course it would be nice to match both sets of data.

Hi David,

That should make things even easier as you won't actually be splitting the signal from Data Port 2 (unless you are also running a flarm display of course).

You mentioned above

Also I would not be getting mode C & S in the MGL as it is only taking data from the Power FLARM.

, but the PFC provides Mode C/S data out via both data ports concurrently, so should provide this data to your MGL via the RS232 link on Data Port 1. Or is the problem with the MGL not able to decode / interpret data for 'bearingless' targets?

Peter

[drvale]

Peter,

Good question on bearing less targets. If you have an example of RS232 bearing less targets data then I may be able to test this on the MGL simulator and also ask the question at MGL.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Better idea... Two USB to RS232 dongles on the PAW. Power Flarm in on one, out to MGL on the other. Power Flarm supplies GPS so no GPS needed on the PAW. MGL then has all traffic, so does the tablet. PAW acts as Air Connect.

Possible?

[exfirepro]

Hi Paul,

I had considered your option, which in theory should certainly work, but would like to complete my tests with PFCore first to make sure there are no conflicts between the two sets of data, before committing David to put all his eggs in one basket. AFAIK no-one has yet run PAW with PFC - or if they have I can't remember seeing any reports. Leaving his MGL on PFC Port 1 meantime means it will still be fully functional even if he had to turn PAW off for any reason.  I spoke to our CFI yesterday (the PFC is in his plane) and he is really keen to go ahead as soon as we can get things organised, but unfortunately he is a very busy man - especially at weekends. I am going down again today to try to sort out wiring etc. and hope to get things set up and tested fully by next weekend. I will report back as soon as I have something positive to report.

Regards meantime

Peter

[drvale]

Peter,

Really do appreciate this and am very sure if the theory evolves into reality then this has to be of benefit to many.
My MGL is away in S.Sfrica having a processor upgrade to give me virtual vision and my Falco is enjoying winter in the S of France so will not get a chance to test for real until February. It is that time of year when winter mods are made. Also built cooling fans into an iPad RAM mount if anyone is interested.

Thanks again.

[brinzlee]

I have been sent a PDF leaflet today on the new Flarm OEM Modules.....looks very interesting...Is this your secret mission that you've working on Lee....I think it would fit very nicely in a Raspberry Pi box on top of the Bridge...!! 

[Admin]

I have been sent a PDF leaflet today on the new Flarm OEM Modules.....looks very interesting...Is this your secret mission that you've working on Lee....I think it would fit very nicely in a Raspberry Pi box on top of the Bridge...!! 

Hi Brinzlee

Can you send a copy of the PDF ?
I am pretty sure this is a TRANSMIT Only IIRC

Thx
Lee