mode s rings query

[peteD]

Where is the documentation on what the mode s rings signify? can't seem to find anything.
FWIW I don't like them ...primarily because the Alt diff is now barely visible...surely this is the most important item!

[Admin]

Hi Pete

Are you referring to SkyDemon representation ?

If so, I think you need to ask Tim Dawson regarding the way the data is represented, I cannot control that I am afraid.

Firstly the rings are trying to signify a threat level NOT A DISTANCE.
It is practiaclly impossible to infer a distance from a signal strength due to the vagaries of installations and transponder power outputs.

The relative height on the other hand DOES provide an accurate representation, between yourself and the reported target.

How best to represent the data ?

PocketFMS/EasyVFRprovides alert banners of Red/Amber/Green showing relative height

SkyDemon & SkyMap use the rings

You will recall in the last release I subverted the messages sent to SkyDemon, to make it appear that an aircraft was piggybacked to your own. SkyDemon said that this was not a good idea, because I was not using the ring method which is what they would prefer - hence I reverted to their wishes

Thx
Lee

[exfirepro]

Lee,

I have to say, I agree with Pete about the Mode S ring altitude text. As you know, I much  preferred your original colour changing aircraft symbols, but understand why you had to change. I am getting used to the rings but did mean to speak to you about the altitude text which is far too small, and a really bad colour - I really struggle to read it in the plane. If it means getting Tim D to make the text bigger, I would consider that essential otherwise we may need to rethink how we display Mode S to SD. The existing text is almost useless. As Pete says, it is essential, but is so small that it distracts attention for too long trying to read the screen at the very point when you should be looking outside.

Regards

Peter

[Admin]

Hi Peter & Pete

I agree with what you are saying regarding the text size, only SkyDemon can change this (if there is no config option in SD)
Maybe you should both ask Tim his thoughts, I have impemented the Protocol as per Tim's wishes, so over to him I would say.

One other thought I have been discussing with others, and that is to add the relative height as part of the audio for bearingless targets, so in other words

from: Traffic Warning
to: Traffic Warning, 200 ft above

for example

[exfirepro]

Ok I will have another look at the SD setting options and if nothing there I will raise it with Tim. IIRC we have had several requests for relative altitude to be reported on audio for Mode S. This would remove the need to look at the screen completely and direct visual scan (and potential avoiding action) automatically. Bit more work for Demi-Lee though!

Regards

Peter

[Admin]

Bit more work for Demi-Lee though!

Luckily no!
All the sound samples are recorded into a complete 'aviation dictionary'
So I can construct sentences from the dictionary - besides, saves on paying royalties

[brinzlee]

Just posted this on SkyDemon forum.....see if we get a response

http://forums.skydemon.aero/Topic19115.aspx

Could the Mode S audio be selectable either on or off.....I love the idea though....

[exfirepro]

Hi All,

I have also added a post on the SD Forum to explain the background, support Brinzlee and politely request that Tim consider increasing the relative altitude text size (and/or add a clearly contrasting background) to make the text easier to read.

We can only await his response.

Peter

[peteD]

Hi all,
Yes,apologies, i was referring to SD.

Lee, I understand your point about signal strength and proximity, but the "rings" presentation makes a big deal about it whilst hardly showing the alt diff,  seems the wrong way round..... I also realise that much of this out of your control.

 I'll have a look on the SD forum and see what Tim has to say

Alt diff. audio seems good idea!

Thanks
Pete

[exfirepro]

Pete,

The difficulty is making sure you 'see' the notification of danger aircraft as early as possible. With ADSB and P3i this is easy as they are presented as moving aircraft symbols, which spring to your attention as soon as they appear - principally because they are moving.

With bearingless targets, remembering that not everybody has audio (e.g. early PAW adopters who may still be running PiB based systems and others), it is essential to present the information in a literally 'eye catching' manner, so you see it as early as possible. Lee's initial attempt was to do this using a small aircraft 'piggybacked' on top of your own (best place IMHO to catch your attention). This aircraft changed colour from green/amber/red to indicate increasing threat level as it approached. This was however 'in conflict' with the 'official' FLARM protocol used by SkyDemon, hence why Lee has had to change back and adopt their coloured concentric rings, whether we actually like them or not.

Unfortunately changes to SkyDemon are completely out of our hands, hence our 'polite requests' to Tim Dawson (of SkyDemon) to ask him to help us out.

Regards

Peter

[brinzlee]

Just in from Tim Dawson at SkyDemon

"Yes, I reckon we can probably do something about this. To refresh my memory, would you be able to provide two screenshots of the SkyDemon display from PilotAware with your personal configuration, the first being the display of a normal target and the second being the display of a bearingless one? I want to compare the font sizes and think about how we might improve the display of bearingless target.

I'm pleased to hear about the switch to the standard display of bearingless targets. One should not ignore the success of Flarm, with tens of thousands of units in circulation, who (for all their faults) have honed this protocol pretty well over the years. I do agree with you that the rings should not really be interpreted as "range" rings, but they do have their purpose as the pilot can see them increasing/decreasing.

In the meantime I will have a think about display improvement."

[brinzlee]

One thing I have noticed when you had the older mode s piggy back style of aircraft on top of your own for an alert, as well as the altitude separation you had the aircraft registration. I notice this in now missing, all that shows are  the red, amber or green rings and the altitude. Is that something that is part of the flarm protocol for less clutter or is it something that can be reintroduced....It is nice to know the tail number if its possible.
Kind regards
Brinsley

[Admin]

it was removed because I recall it messed up the SkyDemon deisplay.
Tim Dawson extended the format of the identifier of the ICAO code, normally in flarm you have
,012345, ...
it was extended by Tim to :-
,012345!G-ABCD, ...

but when I used this in the Bearlingless message, it seemed to not produce what was expected,
I would have to retest to be sure what it was

Thx
Lee

[peteD]

So I have mode s set to long range and +/- 2000ft but get rings displayed at alt diff of greater than 2000 ,...5.6 & 3.5 were displayed today for instance, surely they should be filtered out?

[Admin]

So I have mode s set to long range and +/- 2000ft but get rings displayed at alt diff of greater than 2000 ,...5.6 & 3.5 were displayed today for instance, surely they should be filtered out?

Hi Pete,
Yes these should be filtered out, this does not make sense.
Can you provide your .trk file for the flight so I can analyse the data ?

Thx
Lee