FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers

[exfirepro]

Hi All,

Alan G and I did another FL*RM/PAW Integration test flight today (well several actually). Unfortunately I had a technical problem with trying to run a PAW GPS in 'parallel' with FlarmMouse, which delayed things a fair bit and then a second 'fault' appeared, which looks like a cable fault with my flarmMouse, which severely limited the effectiveness of the later test flights.

The good news, however, is that we did manage to get gliders on screen again and the 'constant audio alerts' problem appears to be sorted by Lee's latest 'beta', though I would like the opportunity to try it further before releasing.

One step forwards and two steps back - that's often the way with development. I will now have to investigate the flarmMouse issue, which as I say is presenting very like a broken wire in the data cable!!! Fortunately, due to a mixup, I now have a spare unit I can use to test against. Watch this space.

Regards meantime

Peter

[Richard]

Peter
    I also took PAW and FLARM for a test flight yesterday, also having a fault. The GPS dropped connction. Once settled in to flight it appears it lost power dew to small vibration on takeoff and the 12v plug moving slightly in the aircraft 12v output. We had low cloud 1700 ft at best so returned to the club and had coffee. Further test are planned.   

[exfirepro]

Hi All,

I managed down to the airfield yesterday to look for the fault in my FlarmMouse setup. I struggled initially until I ran the engine to top up the battery and the Flarm side suddenly died completely. On checking, I found that the main power connection had come loose at the circuit breaker, so that was probably what was affecting the results in our previous flights on Sunday.

After tightening the connection, I set off very late in the day to find gliders again - this time with FlarmMouse connected to a P3i centre-fed dipole inside the left knee hole of my pod as an experiment. By the time I arrived over Loch Leven, there were only a couple of gliders active, though I eventually managed to find 4. They only appeared on screen however when I approached fairly close, with them on my port side (next to the antenna) and much closer in than previously. Antenna type and placement is as expected extremely critical at such low signal strengths. I guess I need to go back and retry my previous antenna solution.

On the positive side, I did get some good screenshots (and flarm warnings) see below and have confirmed that the Flarm audio alerts will now work fine in the next release.

Regards

Peter

[exfirepro]

Hi All,

Just thought you should know - Bearing in mind our successful 'glider tests' last weekend and again on Tuesday, I went down to the airfield on Friday morning with Alan to have another go at trying to improve my Flarm reception, but was devastated to find that we were totally unable to achieve a reliable GPS fix using the flarmMouse GPS. After several attempts both on the ground and in the air, we eventually gave up and resorted to restoring the PAW GPS, which I have discovered will NOT run if the USB/RS232 to the Flarm Mouse is also connected, even if the FlarmMouse is reconfigured to provide 'Flarm Data Only'.

We were therefore only able to undertake a test flight to confirm that PilotAware is still working reliably using its own GPS, but obviously had to abort any thoughts of testing flarm transmission or reception.

I discussed the problem with Lee on my way home from the airfield, and subsequently passed him my track logs, which reveal a definite problem with the GPS data from FlarmMouse. We are currently investigating further and considering the best course of action, - for example to allow PAW to operate using its own GPS, whilst continuing to obtain 'Traffic Data only' from the Flarm device.

We will keep you informed.

Regards

Peter

[Ian Melville]

Pete,
Can you give me more details on what the GPS issues is? I have been having issues with mine, taking up to 15 minutes to find any satellites, never mind a good fix. I assumed it was lack of clear visibility of the sky at home, but the GPS mouse on my PAW fixes in a  few seconds. Not analysed the actual data it sends back to the PAW.

If the issue is with the GPS within the FLARM Mouse, rather than the data that is streams to the PAW then the FLARM Mouse is next to useless. It will not be able to transmit it's own position to other FLARM receivers, even if it can receive other traffic. If that is the case that there is a wider issue, I will be asking LX Nav to explain. I hope I have not brought a £500 ornament

[gvpsj]

I have a PowerFlarm Core with its small GPS receiver and even in my narrow valley I get sat info to my SkyDemon very shortly after the PAW completes its initial check (voice check).

I do not have a GPS dongle or any other GPS receiver linked in so the info must come through PowerFlarm?

Sometimes the PAW check out takes a few minutes to complete but this is unusual so I ignore it.

Hope this info helps

John

[exfirepro]

Hi Guys,

As reported previously, my system worked as expected on Tuesday, with gliders and other aircraft reported as before and all audio alerts as per design protocols, so all fine to that point.

I was however concerned solely that the flarm range had become very restricted and directional after I changed to a centre fed dipole inside the port side knee hole of my pod for the Tuesday flight. I suspected this had downgraded my flarm reception, so went back on Friday with Alan solely to retest with a PAW P3i endfed dipole fitted directly to the flarmMouse on top of the pod - as I had the previous weekend. The only other change I made was to re-site the flarmMouse slightly higher up on the sloping side of my pod and as close as possible to the front (nearest me) edge.

When I powered up and we tried to connect our tablets, they both (iOS 10/SD and Android/EVFR) kept losing signal and couldn't get a fix. I initially suspected a WiFi issue, but having reset it to known good values continued to get dropouts after takeoff, with SD displaying 'Seeking Satellites' banners before reconnecting for a few seconds then dropping out again and EVFR disappearing off to somewhere near the Azores - (presumably 0 degrees North and East) - where it goes when it can't get a GPS fix.

We therefore landed again, switched off the flarmMouse and disconnected the RS232/USB from PAW Port 1. Reconnected the PAW GPS Mouse in its own USB Port 3 (rather than Port 1 which is configured for Flarm-in) and PAW immediately got a solid gps fix, which held for the whole of an 80 minute circuit over Fife and back through Edinburgh Zone.

On analysing the track log for the short 20 minute flight, there is a definite pattern of GPS signal every second for 5 seconds, then no GPS signal for the next 15 seconds - repeating constantly throughout the flight on a 20 second repeat cycle - (thanks to Alan G for the initial analysis). Lee has also found the same pattern with another flarmMouse he put on long-term test at home and has e-mailed LXNav direct to elicit their help to identify the cause.

It's really strange, because I have now looked back through all my previous track logs since last Friday (some 5 hours of flight) and they consistently show regular $GPGGA data at 1 second intervals throughout all the flights, albeit with the very occasional 1 second gap, except for the one log from that first flight this Friday morning!!

In the meantime, as soon as I get a chance, I will swap over and try my 'spare' flarmMouse, but the airfield is presently 'closed due high wind' and will probably remain so for the next couple of days.

Please remember, that's why we test beta - We are already looking at options to improve reliability and we will get to the bottom of things, so don't lose faith.

Regards

Peter

[Ian Melville]

On analysing the track log for the short 20 minute flight, there is a definite pattern of GPS signal every second for 5 seconds, then no GPS signal for the next 20 - repeating constantly throughout the flight - (thanks to Alan G for the initial analysis). Lee has also found the same pattern with another flarmMouse he put on long-term test at home and has e-mailed LXNav direct to elicit their help to identify the cause.

I've had that as well, then suddenly it started working OK again after a reboot or two. In fact I posted about it here http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,688.0.html

[exfirepro]

Hi Ian,

Yes, I recall reading that but had forgotten about it. Did you manage to get/look at track logs (or do you still have access to them)? Might help with our investigations.

Regards

Peter

[Ian Melville]

Hope these work ?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57195501/2016-10-23_17-05.trk
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/57195501/2016-10-23_15-39.trk

If you note from my post on the 23rd. I was using a Y lead so could see what was coming out of the FLARM Mouse and what was being logged on logging page of PAW with NMEA selected. The FLARM  ???mouse output was fine, it was PAW that was playing up.

[exfirepro]

Thanks Ian,

I have had a quick look at the first one which clearly shows regular $GPGGA gps sentences at 1 second intervals. I will have a further look later to see if there are any obvious gaps.

Regards

Peter

[Ian Melville]

The second one shows $GPGGA with no position data try from 15:52 onwards

[exfirepro]

Hi again Ian,

Hmmmm, I see what you mean. That's worse than my logs. The first gap alone in your second log is more than 5 minutes long!!! Later gaps seem to be pretty much following the 'standard' pattern of 5 seconds data followed by 15 seconds gap, repeating, though with several significantly longer gaps. If our experience is representative, LXNav must surely be aware of problems in this area. I think we need to wait and see what Lee's e-mail gets back from them.

Keep in touch

Regards

Peter

[Admin]

Hi Ian, Peter,

Please remember that the track files contain PilotAware interpretation of the GPS data.
To be accurate it is important to see the GPS data with which it is supplied, from Flarm

Ian, you said the following :-

I was using a Y lead so could see what was coming out of the FLARM Mouse and what was being logged on logging page of PAW with NMEA selected. The FLARM  ???mouse output was fine, it was PAW that was playing up.

Can I confirm the following
1. Were you using a GPS dongle and Flarm, or just Flarm ?
2. When you say 'mouse output was fine', do you mean it reported a valid GPS message, or that data was being sent ?
I have been observing GPS messages sent from Flarm, reporting the GPS data is invalid, ie such as this where I have the Flarm Mouse conected directly to a PS/COM port connected to PuTTY :-

$GPRMC,080952.00,V,,,,,,,,,,N*7B
$GPGGA,080952.00,,,,,0,00,99.99,,,,,,*60
$PGRMZ,162,F,2*3F
$PFLAU,0,0,0,1,0,,0,,*63

V indicates invalid, A would indicate valid

Thx
Lee

[Ian Melville]

1. Only FLARM Mouse
2. GPS Data stream from mouse was valid GPS messages on Hype! Terminal, while I was concurrently seeing errors on the PAW (time stamp, no position data)

Do you know how to capture the data from the mouse so that I can save the text, Hype! Terminal is not very good at long sessions?
I will then set up the test again and see if I can capture both streams for comparison