Author Topic: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers  (Read 77776 times)

exfirepro

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #165 on: January 09, 2017, 09:37:48 am »
Hi Stu,
Thanks, both, for your replies. That is a pretty close frequency, presumably both systems need to use the same limited "public use" part of the spectrum

Correct
Quote
but I presume that greatly increases the likelihood of interaction if the antennae are too close. I had tried some experiments with the PAW and ADSB antennae and from that concluded that there was no significant effect on ADSB reception provided PAW was about 3 inches away from it - but of course ADSB is listening for powerful signals and the two systems are over 10% apart in frequency. Due to absence of PAW targets I could not test if the ADSB antenna was having any effect on PAW reception.

Close proximity of the 1090MHz (ADSB) antenna is unlikely to affect P3I due to the frequency difference and the fact that the ADSB is receive only.
Quote
As regards mounting an antenna on the underside of the aircraft, that probably is worth considering, I probably slipped into assuming an "on top of canopy" installation as a natural evolution from my present set up where they hang below the top of the canopy arch. However, I think there is one important consideration that very much favours a "top-side" installation rather than a belly-mount. Even inside the canopy, the antenna is very high above the top of the engine so it should have a view ahead down to perhaps 15 or more degrees below the horizontal, and of course unlimited view above the horizontal. A belly mount would have unrestricted view in the downward arc but would only be only a few inches below the engine 6 feet ahead of it so would barely be able to see above the horizontal at all. I think that is too high a price to pay. The other option I may be forced to consider is a fin-tip installation. That would give good separation though the cable runs would; be lengthy.

All good thinking on antenna placement. It's generally best to keep cable leads as short as possible, though Keith has had good results using the standard 3m extension leads to feed 1/4 wave whips on the underside of his Sportcruiser. If you decide to test a fin-tip option, it might be advisable to use lower loss co-ax (which will be a bit thicker) with appropriate connectors or adapters.
Quote
BTW - is there any received wisdom re the pros and cons of the red-box FL@RM unit vs the FL@RM Mouse? I have read a thread here somewhere taht said the GPS antenna in teh mouse is small and is a bit of a poor perfomer - not good if teh mouse becomes your primary GPS source for all the conspicuity and nav app systems, so the red box plus a GPS dongle sounds to me a better idea (but of course more wiring!)

Richard is correct re the GPS issue. It was me that had some GPS problems during testing with my FlarmMouse, though it did work fine for most of the tests and seems to be working again since. Lee sent my track logs for the flights in question off to LXNav in Slovenia, who commented that due to the small size of the inbuilt gps antenna in their (matchbox size) device, gps performance could be poorer than when using a 'full size' gps antenna, but I don't think we have had anything further back from them yet. Lee subsequently reconfigured the PAW software so that if you have FLARM gps available, PAW will use this, but if you also plug in a PAW gps (in my case the mouse) then PAW will use that instead. I have had no problems since reconfiguring my setup along these lines and am getting sound glider fixes, so the inbuilt FlarmMouse gps seems fine when doing what it is designed to do. My previous comments were related to concerns where a couple of users were going to rely on the FlarmMouse gps as the sole source to feed Flarm, PilotAware, ADSB Out and IIRC a glass panel system, which I felt I could not recommend. Just too many eggs in the one (very) small basket for my liking.

I have no personal experience of the LXNavigation FLARM Red Box, so would bow to Richard's experience in this respect.

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 09:40:13 am by exfirepro »

Paul_Sengupta

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #166 on: January 10, 2017, 11:51:27 pm »
Close proximity of the 1090MHz (ADSB) antenna is unlikely to affect P3I due to the frequency difference and the fact that the ADSB is receive only.

However, close proximity of the P3i antenna to anything metal, including and probably especially the ADS-B antenna, will affect the propagation of the P3i antenna, both on transmit and receive.

CaptChaos and myself experimented with this using the original ARF modules, which being lower power, showed up the propagation differences more clearly than at present.

Stu B

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #167 on: January 11, 2017, 12:10:10 am »
Thanks, both - again all useful stuff! I have the PAW antenna ahead of the ADS-B in the hope that any loss in PAW performance caused by the ADS-B antenna might affect the rear hemisphere rather than the front one, but I suppose it may be that any effect from a nearby metal rod is global rather than directional? I'll have to do some testing. I do have two pilot mates locally who also have PAW so I'll have to arrange a trial.

Birdyboy1

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #168 on: May 10, 2017, 10:31:11 pm »
From this forum I understand I can connect my powerflarm core to my PAW. Am I right in understanding that I need an RS232 to usb converter and I remove the butterfly unit to SD and take the rs232 feed that went to it,  to the PAW in place of the GPS PAW. The FLARM core transmits FLARM to gliders. The PAW then collactes received FLARM/ ADS-B, mode C/S and adds it to information it collects from P3i, all sources are passed to my Nexus 7 via wifi and displayed on SD. 
What changes in software or configuartion are required to make this happen?
is there any documentation describing this?
So then I would be transmitting Mode S and ADS-B (transponder), FLARM (core), P3I (PAW) and receiving the same.
I thought it worth spending 1000 on PFLARM a while back and its worth spending the extra 200 to back the other horse.

exfirepro

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #169 on: May 11, 2017, 12:05:28 am »
Hi Birdyboy,

Yes, pretty much as you describe. I personally run a FlarmMouse integrated to PAW as PAW already gives me the ADSB and P3i reception, but have integrated PFC in my CFI's flexwing for him as he already had it installed and it works great. Simply a case of making up a lead from the PFC data OUT to PAW Data IN via an RS232 to USB adapter cable (I prefer the FTDI USB-RS232-WE-1800-BT-0.0  CABLE, obtainable from CPC Farnell or next day post free from RS Components - watch out there are lots of fakes around mainly from Chinese sources so be careful).

The only setting change is to set the relevant PAW USB port to FLARM IN. The PAW software is already set up for automatic FLARM data integration.

If you already have PFC, this is well worth doing.

Regards

Peter

Positiv

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #170 on: November 27, 2018, 11:51:21 am »
Need help.
Can someone write a tutorial PDF. with picture
PilotAware and Flarm
LX RedBox
Config   19200
Relais New

PilotAware Confg    USB1  Flarm-In  19200
Relais 20180520


Cabel is  USB-RS232-WE-1800-BT-0.0        Pin1=GND  BLACK   /   Pin5=Rx Yellow
Red Box RJ  Pin1=GND   /   Pin3=Tx


Flarm to USB Pilotaware
IS OK
Flarm DATA ?????
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 02:43:35 pm by Positiv »

A_Vinning33

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #171 on: November 29, 2018, 07:40:02 am »
Hi Positiv,

Peter Robertson (ExFirePro) wrote this document about connecting Flarm to PilotAware.
https://pilotaware.com/Documents/FLARM-IN%20via%20LX%20Nav%20FlarmMouse.pdf?_t=1536411663
Does this help?

Thanks,
Ash

exfirepro

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #172 on: November 29, 2018, 08:41:28 am »
Hi Ash,

Christian (Positiv) has been in touch via e-mail regarding this (forwarded to me by KV). Christian already has the FlarmMouse document but is querying the pin allocations with respect to LX FLARM RedBox connection. I had intended to check this for him and get back to him yesterday but domestic duties got in the way. I will check it out and get back to him today.

I will also post my findings here.

Regards

Peter

exfirepro

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #173 on: December 02, 2018, 10:08:39 am »
Hi All,

OK, I have checked out Positiv‘s ‘Red Box’ problem (and updated him directly by e-mail on Friday), but as promised post my findings here for the benefit of anyone else wanting to go down this route.

It turns out that the initial confusion was caused by the fact that in their manual for the ‘Red Box’, LXNavigation have reversed the pin numbering convention used in the original FLARM and PowerFLARM units and by LX Nav (different company) in their FlarmMouse (and other) Manual(s). This caused confusion when trying to use the pin out picture in my ‘Direct FLARM via FlarmMouse’ guide from the PilotAware website (taken from the LXNav FlarmMouse Manual) as a guide to integrating the LXNavigation FLARM Red Box. A further complication is that cable colours in ‘standard’ data cables can vary significantly in relation to pin allocations, not least depending on which end of a standard 6 or 8 way cable you decide to cut off to use for your RJ to USB converter (see the ‘FlarmMouse Integration Guide).  Thankfully, LXNavigation have reverted to standard pin numbering convention in the manual for their newer PowerFLARM Eagle.

I ‘could’ write a specific guide for the ‘Red Box’, but am a bit sceptical as to how much use would be made of it (please let me know).

In the meantime, the ‘Direct FLARM via FlarmMouse Guide’ provides the required ‘generic’ information and the correct Ground and Tx wires can be determined from this diagram taken from the ‘Red Box’ Manual. N.B. This is looking down on the plug with the brass contact pins underneath. To be safe,Don’t rely on wire colours. ALWAYS use a multi-meter or circuit tester to check that you have the correct wires before making the connection to the converter cable. Getting this wrong has been known to destroy at least one expensive FLARM device - you have been warned!

Any concerns I am happy to offer advice, though in complex cases, I may have to do some research first.

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 01:05:16 pm by exfirepro »

Positiv

Re: FL*RM Integration - Beta Testers
« Reply #174 on: December 02, 2018, 12:41:39 pm »
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 12:45:18 pm by Positiv »