Author Topic: Incorporating a power supply?  (Read 9994 times)

hairgoneJohn

Incorporating a power supply?
« on: September 10, 2015, 04:06:36 pm »
Hi

This project is a great idea. Thanks. However it seems that the cost of a Rf interference-free power supply is greater than the cost of the pilotaware, which may hinder its success. In addition my understanding is that certified aircraft owners need expensive approval paperwork to fit the charge4u.

Would it be possible to incorporate a psu within the pilotaware?  I cannot imagine that the parts cost of the charge4u excluding the case exceeds £20.  Even better, of the pilotaware had a power out socket to charge tablets/phones etc some pilots might buy it just for the charging capability and the TCAS would be a free bonus.

Just a thought.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 04:13:02 pm by hairgoneJohn »

Admin

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2015, 04:17:57 pm »
please check this thread for a discussion on Power supply
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,9.0.html

I have used a USB powerbank, and switch mode regulators with success

hairgoneJohn

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2015, 04:25:46 pm »
I have seen that thread thanks. My experience has been that cheap switched mode psu's give me radio interference. Can you recommend one please?

Batteries are a solution until they are flat!

Thanks

Admin

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2015, 06:44:30 pm »
I have seen that thread thanks. My experience has been that cheap switched mode psu's give me radio interference. Can you recommend one please?
Batteries are a solution until they are flat!
Thanks

It always seems to be luck of the draw with the switch mode, sometimes they work well, sometimes not I'm afraid

This was a posting about linear regulators
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,9.msg329.html#msg329
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 06:46:14 pm by Admin »

JCurtis

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2015, 08:50:57 am »
Hi

This project is a great idea. Thanks. However it seems that the cost of a Rf interference-free power supply is greater than the cost of the pilotaware, which may hinder its success. In addition my understanding is that certified aircraft owners need expensive approval paperwork to fit the charge4u.

Would it be possible to incorporate a psu within the pilotaware?  I cannot imagine that the parts cost of the charge4u excluding the case exceeds £20.  Even better, of the pilotaware had a power out socket to charge tablets/phones etc some pilots might buy it just for the charging capability and the TCAS would be a free bonus.

Just a thought.

For information the Charge2 is in the process of gaining an EASA Minor Mod approval certificate for fitting into EASA registered aircraft.  The physical tests have been completed and I believe the paperwork is in progress.  This work is being performed by an avionics company and they will resell Charge2 with the approval paperwork.

The parts inside a Charge2, excluding the case, do cost more than £20.  All parts are from traceable sources, and the multilayer PCB is made in the EU.  The quality of far east suppliers is way too variable and unpredictable to ensure everything remains within specification.  They are designed to meet the aviation standards, which takes time.  Each is also fully tested before getting it's serial number, again this takes time.

I could look at a bundle of a Charge2 and kit to make a PilotAware, which might make some overall saving?
Designer and maker of charge4.harkwood.co.uk, smart universal USB chargers designed for aviation.  USB Type-A and USB-C power without the RF interference. Approved for EASA installs under CS-STAN too.

Richard

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2015, 09:09:07 am »

   I Agree, The Charge2 is an outstanding product.The backup service is second to non. Compered to a device which is cube shaped and colored blue, the price is more than half the cost. The charge2 is British made. What more could you ask for....

My tests using Charge2 with PilotAware have shown to be a perfect match.

Richard.
Richard.
Europa XS

hairgoneJohn

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2015, 11:49:12 am »
I'm sorry if I have offended anybody by suggesting that the cost of the power supply is an important factor.  I certainly didn't mean to imply that the Charge2 is overpriced.  I know from speaking to other aviation electronics suppliers the requirements and cost to get certification are significant.  Indeed one British manufacturer told me that they could supply their product for a third of the price if it didn't need certifying.

However I still maintain that if the cost of the power supply doubles the overall cost it will severely limit take-up, particularly at the light end of aviation.  The heavy end will have mode S anyway. Whilst it is admirable that the Charge2 is designed and assembled in Britain please be aware that most high-tech consumer electronics is made in Asia and it does not deter many.  Ask any Apple user if s/he cares about the country of manufacture or feels it would be of better quality if made in the West.

However it would appear that there are some very clever British chaps working on this project and I am sure that by the start of next year's flying season a relatively cheap solution will have been found.  Perhaps Charge2 could offer a certified/uncertified version of their product?  Only a suggestion so please don't take offence.

JCurtis

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2015, 12:45:17 pm »
I'm sorry if I have offended anybody by suggesting that the cost of the power supply is an important factor.  I certainly didn't mean to imply that the Charge2 is overpriced.  I know from speaking to other aviation electronics suppliers the requirements and cost to get certification are significant.  Indeed one British manufacturer told me that they could supply their product for a third of the price if it didn't need certifying.

However I still maintain that if the cost of the power supply doubles the overall cost it will severely limit take-up, particularly at the light end of aviation.  The heavy end will have mode S anyway. Whilst it is admirable that the Charge2 is designed and assembled in Britain please be aware that most high-tech consumer electronics is made in Asia and it does not deter many.  Ask any Apple user if s/he cares about the country of manufacture or feels it would be of better quality if made in the West.

However it would appear that there are some very clever British chaps working on this project and I am sure that by the start of next year's flying season a relatively cheap solution will have been found.  Perhaps Charge2 could offer a certified/uncertified version of their product?  Only a suggestion so please don't take offence.

No offence taken at all.  There is no physical difference between the two versions, just one will come with the minor mod approval (at a higher price), it was designed to pass the tests from the outset.  It seemed the 'right' thing to do given the operating environment.
I am not associated with PilotAware just pointed toward it by customers, I'm sure there are other solutions out there too.  I registered here just to say hello and answer questions anyone may have over the units.

Assembly in the far east requires large volumes to make sense and unless you watch them like a hawk the quality is variable too.  The capital costs of setting up even a small production run are quite large, it is only by covering the cost over 1000's of units does it become viable.

Charge2 (and the 4 port version, Charge4) was designed to solve a problem in a friends aircraft and spawned from there.  I looked at a number of solutions out there, some were frankly shocking (literally!).  One memorable moment; I put a short on the USB port of one (to simulate possible USB cable fault), it whined for a few seconds then catastrophically failed. Stank the office out, the other half wasn't impressed...

As I said I could look at a discounted bundle to support PilotAware, with a Charge2 and a PilotAware kit?  I could then pass on any discounts for buying bits in higher quantities.  It's a great project.
Designer and maker of charge4.harkwood.co.uk, smart universal USB chargers designed for aviation.  USB Type-A and USB-C power without the RF interference. Approved for EASA installs under CS-STAN too.

Andy Fell

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2015, 09:26:11 pm »
There's no real need for an expensive power supply to feed power to pilotaware. 

See the bottom of this thread.   I have had good performance from a switch mode power supply readily available from ebay - based on a decent chipset and the design is sound.
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,9.msg563.html#new

hairgoneJohn

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2015, 08:37:39 am »
Thanks. Much appreciated. I've tried several switched psu's and they cause a drop in sensitivity of the radio. It took me some time to realise that the cause of my weak reception was the psu.
It's good that you've found one that is rfi free. What size capacitor would you recommend?


Andy Fell

Re: Incorporating a power supply?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2015, 08:18:12 pm »
Thanks. Much appreciated. I've tried several switched psu's and they cause a drop in sensitivity of the radio. It took me some time to realise that the cause of my weak reception was the psu.
It's good that you've found one that is rfi free. What size capacitor would you recommend?

I think I put 100uF on it, 63V part  Can't remember exactly.

It can be somewhat installation dependant, ensure you keep good cable routing... but have found these to be good.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 08:21:36 pm by Wobblewing »