ADS-B receiver only

[DavidC]

Another newbie here.

If I don't fit the ARF module, can the system/software operate as ADS-B only?
Seems to me this would cost less than £50 all up, be compatible with SkyDemon for viewing, and even easier to construct.
Plus a good first stage to build.

I did search for a Forum topic/documentation but couldn't find a specific answer

[Andy Fell]

Another newbie here.

If I don't fit the ARF module, can the system/software operate as ADS-B only?
Seems to me this would cost less than £50 all up, be compatible with SkyDemon for viewing, and even easier to construct.
Plus a good first stage to build.

I did search for a Forum topic/documentation but couldn't find a specific answer

This is technically possible, but why would you want to do that?  The whole idea is to produce something low cost so folks who can't/won't install a transponder have a means of being seen as well as seeing other people.

If you are receiving only ADS-B transmissions, then you could ultimately be missing a lot of traffic data as you won't be picking up pilotaware only equipped traffic.

If you are ADS-B equipped, they will see you, but you won't be able to detect them.  It significantly reduces the effectiveness of the system, and goes against the philosophy of the idea.

The costs of the ARF radio is still low and provides a very significant advantage.

I'd recommend against it.

[Admin]

Hi David,

As Andy explains, an ADS-B system is perfectly feasible in a technical sense, but not really in the spirit of PilotAware.
The purpose of PilotAware is safety.
Safety is enhanced through visibility and mass deployment.
By making the system as cost effective as possible we want to try and saturate the market, but of course if we have installations which are ADS-B only then that is not helpful to those who do not have ADS-B transponders, but wish to be seen by those that do.
Take a look at this close call at around 1:00 into the video
https://www.youtube.com/embed/H4TuJM3uuzY

I had an interesting discussion with somebody at the LAA rally who asked could he setup a receive only and turn off his transmitter, I wasn't sure if he was pulling my leg or not 

Regarding a first stage build, I wholeheartedly agree that it is a good confidence boost to see traffic on the NAV screen, but I would emphasize this should be seen only as a preliminary testing phase.

I know there have been discussions on other forums to only build an ADS-B In system, I think we should discourage this, and may even put a timeout into the software when an ARF is not detected, this would allow for testing of a partial system, but would discourage intending to use this as a final build.

I hope you don't find this unreasonable, but I think for the cost of an extra £30 on such a low cost system, this is something upon which we should not compromise, do you agree ?

Thx
Lee

[ianfallon]

Hi David,

As Andy explains, an ADS-B system is perfectly feasible in a technical sense, but not really in the spirit of PilotAware.
The purpose of PilotAware is safety.
Safety is enhanced through visibility and mass deployment.
By making the system as cost effective as possible we want to try and saturate the market, but of course if we have installations which are ADS-B only then that is not helpful to those who do not have ADS-B transponders, but wish to be seen by those that do.
Take a look at this close call at around 1:00 into the video
https://www.youtube.com/embed/H4TuJM3uuzY

I had an interesting discussion with somebody at the LAA rally who asked could he setup a receive only and turn off his transmitter, I wasn't sure if he was pulling my leg or not 

Regarding a first stage build, I wholeheartedly agree that it is a good confidence boost to see traffic on the NAV screen, but I would emphasize this should be seen only as a preliminary testing phase.

I know there have been discussions on other forums to only build an ADS-B In system, I think we should discourage this, and may even put a timeout into the software when an ARF is not detected, this would allow for testing of a partial system, but would discourage intending to use this as a final build.

I hope you don't find this unreasonable, but I think for the cost of an extra £30 on such a low cost system, this is something upon which we should not compromise, do you agree ?

Thx
Lee

+1

[DavidC]

Thanks for the quick answer.
I'll try that out and see if ADS-B only works first, before moving on to the more advanced stage involving soldering.

Meanwhile I've ordered an ARF and Dipole connector thingummy which might take a little while to arrive...

[stephenmelody]

That youtube video is mine... I'm going to have to start charging people for linking to it 

I was coming off a Traffic service with EMA Radar. You can read more http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223599/Seconds-away-disaster-Dramatic-moment-pilot-avert-mid-air-collision-aircraft-caught-camera.html

That exact incident is exactly why I'm building my own PilotAware system, following the instructions on this website. I think everyone who is involved in GA should be investing in this.

[trapdoor]

I think we should discourage this, and may even put a timeout into the software when an ARF is not detected, this would allow for testing of a partial system, but would discourage intending to use this as a final build.

Think that would be an excellent idea, but please make sure you pop a message up on the console otherwise people may go off down the route of thinking something is busted if they no longer see traffic on the screen.

[stephenmelody]

I think we should discourage this, and may even put a timeout into the software when an ARF is not detected, this would allow for testing of a partial system, but would discourage intending to use this as a final build.

Think that would be an excellent idea, but please make sure you pop a message up on the console otherwise people may go off down the route of thinking something is busted if they no longer see traffic on the screen.

I think once you guys have sorted out a modular "click together" kit, it will really become a moot point, as I assume you'll only sell them as full kits. This would really help the market for the device take off. The "home brew" side of things I reckon will then only be those that want to modify it further for their own personal use.

This is a brilliant concept / idea / product. I really hope it takes off!! (pardon the pun).

[Andy Fell]

I think we should discourage this, and may even put a timeout into the software when an ARF is not detected, this would allow for testing of a partial system, but would discourage intending to use this as a final build.

Think that would be an excellent idea, but please make sure you pop a message up on the console otherwise people may go off down the route of thinking something is busted if they no longer see traffic on the screen.

Good feedback 

[stephenmelody]

From a testing perspective, if you have the ARF and disconnect the ADS-B receiver, you'd theoretically only pick up other pilots with a PilotAware device??

I suppose that's the only way of testing the ARF if you don't know another pilot with it?

Cheers.

SM.

[Admin]

From a testing perspective, if you have the ARF and disconnect the ADS-B receiver, you'd theoretically only pick up other pilots with a PilotAware device??
I suppose that's the only way of testing the ARF if you don't know another pilot with it?
Cheers.
SM.

I would need to double check this, but I think you are correct
Thx
Lee

[Andy Fell]

Could always just pull off the antenna - that wouldn't cause any software issues if the dongle is unplugged.

[sturs]

Does the above imply that the system should work if the ARF module isn't present?  I have put one together without the module - but only because I can't find one to buy!  According to the on-screen messages during start-up the software attempts to connect to the ARF module several times and then stops with a 'configuration failed' message.

I fully understand and support the principle that an included, low-cost, transceiver module really increases the safety value of the device.  I'm just impatient to see something working!  btw, apart from that the setup and software loading/licensing worked without a hitch.

This is a very impressive project. Thank you, Lee.

[Admin]

Today PilotAware will run in an ADS-B only mode if it is unable to configure the ARF.
I plan to deprecate this in the future, but allow a 10 minute timeout for testing purposes
as you have indicated, to get some confidence that the system is up and running, in the
absence of the ARF.