Mode A and Mode C

[AlanG]

Hi All

This argument keeps appearing on this and other forums about the possibility of PAW (and other devices) generating false alerts that distract the pilot from other important tasks  and the possibility that it increases rather than decreases pilot workload and may diminish peoples perception of its usefulness over time.
Now I have to confess to being a relatively newly qualified NPPL and find this hard to understand.  I can vividly remember the syllabus for the NPPL in which every exercise  has a sub-heading "Airmanship".
At the top of this section the very first item was "Lookout". 
The whole idea behind the "Bearingless Mode a, c, s, Alerts" generated by PAW is to concentrate the mind on LOOKOUT, not to stare at the screen seeking information which is not going to be there.
Depending on your own settings in PAW and your navigation software you will be alerted to a target within +/- xxxx feet of your own altitude.  The only clue to its distance will be the colour coding, Green, Amber, Red.  If you then fail to obtain a visual on that target and it disappears without trace, no problem, if you do get a visual and it's no threat, again no problem, if you get a visual and need to take avoiding action, OK.  In all of these situations PAW will have done its job.  If you didn't get this warning whilst you were busy doing "something else important" as has been quoted and you encounter someone else also doing something other than "lookout" it could turn out to be the last warning you never get.
I've said it before and will say it again, there are no "False Alerts" generated by PAW (or other systems), it is telling you there is something in your vicinity that requires your attention and it's up to you what you do with that information.  Ignore it at your and others peril.
If a few minutes of extra vigilant lookout is considered extra pilot workload then it's a burden we should all be prepared to carry.

Alan

[Moffrestorer]

Very succinct, AlanG!

I agree with all you said.

[Deker]

  If you didn't get this warning whilst you were busy doing "something else important" as has been quoted and you encounter someone else also doing something other than "lookout" it could turn out to be the last warning you never get.

Spot on Alan,
A warning of an aircraft in the vicinity at a similar height has got to be good thing even without direction information.
It could help prioritize "lookout" at a critical moment.

[Andy Fell]

Ok I can take a hint 

I know where I fly there will be mode C all over the place, so it'll be a case of lookout or lookout!

[Winged_Jaguar]

I took the PAW out for a test in a PA28 and it picked up the ADS-B planes at about 10-15Nm with a stubby 1/4 wave aerial. We were advised of Military Helicopters operating at low level which we saw but as expected these do not currently show up in PAW. I see from the RAF's excellent AirClues online magazine Issue 14 that in an article which mentioned airprox and Class G "that many military aircraft are now equipped with TCAS and many others are being upgraded. All military aircraft squawk Mode3A/7001 with C when low flying and if they have a transponder use it with Mode3A/7000 Mode C selected to make themselves more detectable by TCAS-equipped aircraft" - and hopefuly by ourselves as the Mode A/C work comes to fruition.
Chris

[Paul_Sengupta]

There needs to be a contact to equip all military aircraft with a PAW... 

[AlanB]

There needs to be a contact to equip all military aircraft with a PAW... 

I doubt they'd use it for the same reasons they generally don't carry ADS-B out.

Alan

[flying_john]

If you are watching for Ext Squit on say FR24, how do you tell if they are either Mode C, Mode S or ES returns ?

John

[Andy Fell]

If you are watching for Ext Squit on say FR24, how do you tell if they are either Mode C, Mode S or ES returns ?

John

The non Mode S are "MLAT" returns.  MLAT stands for multilateration and they estimate these positions based on triangulation from all available ground stations.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Rather non-ADS-B ones show up as MLAT if they have Mode S. If they don't have Mode S then you can't identify them so they don't appear. Maybe someone could suggest they show Mode C contacts as well, but just marked as Unknown. I don't know if the current FR24 receiving system is set up for Mode C.

As for military and ADS-B, some do have it, but they're blocked in FR24. You can see military aircraft on the PAW which don't show up on FR24.

Remember this was the RAF who painted their training fleet black to aid visibility. I suspect the RAF would be quite happy to try low cost means of preventing their multi million pound assets from hitting puddle jumpers.

[DaveStyles]

I found out that Royal Helicopter G-XXEB has ADSB when it flew directly over my house the other day. I was quite surprised at that.

[Andy Fell]

....I suspect the RAF would be quite happy to try low cost means of preventing their multi million pound assets from hitting puddle jumpers.

Mil need tough vibration performance, so while a good idea in concept it would struggle to meet their specs.  Reference oscillator needs to be tolerant to high vibration, which is usually a fairly high cost item. 

It would need to be ruggedised, but do-able of course.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Not necessarily. If all that's too difficult they just Velcro something to the dashboard like they did with their Garmin GPS IIIs back in the day...

[Andy Fell]

Cool.  Are they still flying the Tiger Moth?

[Paul_Sengupta]

Sure! But they're also still flying their Hawks and C130s!