Author Topic: Pilotaware source differentiator  (Read 7743 times)

thearb

  • Guest
Pilotaware source differentiator
« on: November 30, 2015, 11:56:55 am »
I have a suggestion for a slight enhancement for the benefit of those that use Pilotware with Skydemon. I would like to see at a glance whether the contact on the screen is originating from a Pilotaware source or an ADS-B source. One way this could be done would be to have  an asterisk at the beginning or end of the identifier. Would there be any support from Skydemon users on here to have Lee introduce this?

(Not sure if this forum supports a polling option?)

PS for those that don't know, when you press on the contact symbol  on the Skydemon screen you get extra info such as ground speed, exact height and track.

stephenmelody

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 12:06:11 pm »
It would definitely make testing easier! Perhaps it could be configurable from the PAW webpage menu?

SteveHutt

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 01:40:47 pm »
How does SkyDemon know which traffic is ADS-B and which is P3I?
And where a FLARM device is connected to SkyDemon, which is FLARM?
What info is passed to SkyDemon?

Rather than an '*' indicator always on the screen, maybe it would be better if the source/type of data was in the 'extra' data visible when the traffic sybol is clicked/touched.

Steve
Steve Hutt

ChrisBell

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 05:19:53 pm »
Not sure i'd ever notice an asterisk - how about a different colour icon ?

ianfallon

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2015, 06:07:17 pm »
For testing it might be useful and so could be in the extra info yep.

For the end product use I'm not sure it's important at all so would rather it was not added to the display (clutter) personally.

From what I gather, SkyDemon are in the process of careful thought as to how to enhance the traffic depiction in terms of icons/colour etc. rather than just make it all configurable.

Admin

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2015, 06:10:56 pm »
The display on the Navigation software, cannot be configured by PAW.
The data is supplied from PilotAware, but ultimately the NAV software decides what to do with it.

The idea of the '*', was because this is under the control of PAW, when supplying the FlightID field to
the NAV software, controlling colour, icon type etc is outside the realm

bryannortje

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 11:42:45 am »
ok here is a question:
So I'm flying and outputting ADS-B through transponder and have my PAWS all up and running. I fly towards say Ian Fallon and he is doing the same thing with ADS-B and PAWS. If we are out of PAWS range I would expect that we would see each other on the ADS-B receiver input.....so if we fly towards each other what will happen when we get to within PAWS range ??

Admin

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 12:25:14 pm »
ok here is a question:
So I'm flying and outputting ADS-B through transponder and have my PAWS all up and running. I fly towards say Ian Fallon and he is doing the same thing with ADS-B and PAWS. If we are out of PAWS range I would expect that we would see each other on the ADS-B receiver input.....so if we fly towards each other what will happen when we get to within PAWS range ??

Hi Bryan,
This is a valid point, because the data that is held is consolidated from the P3I and ADS-B streams.
The index is the ICAO Hex code, so if the data is interleaved like this as it is received
ADS-B ...
ADS-B ...
ADS-B ...
ADS-B ...
P3I ...
ADS-B ...
P3I ...
ADS-B ...
P3I ...

What should be displayed ?

Thx
Lee

exfirepro

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 01:51:52 pm »
Presumably the combined data will produce a single aircraft icon showing relative altitude etc as if it is from a single (i.e. either) source. Not sure we need to know the source type - surely the object is to encourage us to look outside for the approaching aircraft and to help decide which way to turn/climb or descend to pass it clearly and safely.

Data can be examined later if necessary through the traffic screen if I recall.

I do accept though that during the extended testing period a simple means of determining whether the contact is from an ARF source or a much higher powered ADSB unit could be beneficial.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 01:57:20 pm by exfirepro »

ianfallon

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 02:21:33 pm »
Presumably the combined data will produce a single aircraft icon showing relative altitude etc as if it is from a single (i.e. either) source. Not sure we need to know the source type - surely the object is to encourage us to look outside for the approaching aircraft and to help decide which way to turn/climb or descend to pass it clearly and safely.

Data can be examined later if necessary through the traffic screen if I recall.

I do accept though that during the extended testing period a simple means of determining whether the contact is from an ARF source or a much higher powered ADSB unit could be beneficial.

Peter

Agreed.

ianfallon

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 02:24:56 pm »
ok here is a question:
So I'm flying and outputting ADS-B through transponder and have my PAWS all up and running. I fly towards say Ian Fallon and he is doing the same thing with ADS-B and PAWS. If we are out of PAWS range I would expect that we would see each other on the ADS-B receiver input.....so if we fly towards each other what will happen when we get to within PAWS range ??

Hi Bryan,
This is a valid point, because the data that is held is consolidated from the P3I and ADS-B streams.
The index is the ICAO Hex code, so if the data is interleaved like this as it is received
ADS-B ...
ADS-B ...
ADS-B ...
ADS-B ...
P3I ...
ADS-B ...
P3I ...
ADS-B ...
P3I ...

What should be displayed ?

Thx
Lee

I'm guessing at the moment Lee, you would overwrite the single entry keyed on the hex code for the a/c which seems sensible. So you'd just get more info about the same aircraft, i.e. it updates more frequently.

However, I would imagine there is a risk of some "jittering" of the aircraft on the display because the lag of the ADS-B info will be different to the lag of the P3I info so perhaps a more complex algorithm is needed ?

neilmurg

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 03:19:57 pm »
Simpler to reject the P3I if an existing ADS-B exists. If you blend the 2 there's a risk of height difference as well as position difference, so keep the 'official' one, you are likely to get it first (go with it even if you get ADS-B second). Is there any additional data in the P3I signal?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 03:21:44 pm by neilmurg »

Admin

Re: Pilotaware source differentiator
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 03:29:02 pm »
Quote
I'm guessing at the moment Lee, you would overwrite the single entry keyed on the hex code for the a/c which seems sensible. So you'd just get more info about the same aircraft, i.e. it updates more frequently.
That is correct, in fact what is updated is the Lat/Long/Speed/Track
The Altitude is kept in seperate buckets for PressureAltitude(ADS-B) or GPSAltitude(P3I)

Quote
However, I would imagine there is a risk of some "jittering" of the aircraft on the display because the lag of the ADS-B info will be different to the lag of the P3I info so perhaps a more complex algorithm is needed ?
TBH, I think this is a non-issue due to the map scales involved, unless you were zoomed right in, and very very close to the other a/c - in which case you should be looking out of the window, and not inside the cockpit  ;)