Author Topic: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire  (Read 2689 times)

Joe M

Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« on: October 11, 2024, 05:00:05 pm »
Hope someone can help.
My syndicate partner flew from Enstone to Shobdon a week or so ago, his tablet running Sky Demon connected to the Rosetta lost GPS connection once he was East of Malvern. On the return journey the Rosetta couldn’t find GPS until back East of Malvern.
Today I made the same trip (same Rosetta, different tablet) and the same thing happened. West bound I lost service at Bromyard, coming back it was restored near Pershore.
Throughout the trips my iPhone ran Sky Demon connected to GPS using its own location services. I also managed to connect SkyDemon to GPS using the tablet on the return when Rosetta wasn’t able to connect.
Any help gratefully received.

daviddurrans

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2024, 08:45:49 am »
This will be of little help to you. I flew Tattenhill to Sleap last Sunday (6th Oct) and had a similar problem once west of Stafford. Normal service resumed when flying the return trip. No problem with gps reception using iPad internal GPS and Skydemon “location services”

Admin

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2024, 10:10:52 am »
What software version are you running, and is this
PilotAware Classic
PilotAware Rosetta
PilotAware Rosetta FX

Also, could you provide ICAO code, date, time of GPS loss so we can look into the ground monitoring data

Thx
Lee

Joe M

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2024, 11:20:42 am »
Thanks for the prompt reply Lee.
It’s a Rosetta
404C04
11th October lost signal about midday BST between Bromyard and Leominster.
Returning East bound re-established approx 1330 BST at Pershore
I will check software level when I’m next at the airfield.

steveu

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2024, 05:59:08 pm »
Any sign of any GPS jamming NOTAMs?

Joe M

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2024, 04:10:17 pm »
My software level is 20220805.

I didn’t see any gps jamming notams. Also, my iPhone and tablet were both still able to use gps.

Admin

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2024, 03:11:53 pm »
That is quite an old version Joe
Could you please update, and also provide the track file of your flight
Thx
Lee

exfirepro

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2024, 07:11:58 pm »
Hi Joe,

In the absence of the Track Files from your PilotAware, I have run the PilotAware Groundstation Playback Tool and checked for tracks as reported from your aircraft via the PilotAware ATOM-GRID Groundstation Network.

The Playback Tool reports 404C04 departing Enstone at ~13:00 (local) on Thursday, 3rd October and heading towards Shobdon as you reported. On that occasion, there is a solid track with continuous reports from multiple Groundstations (up to 10 or more at the same time) from take-off at Enstone to a position just south-east of Leominster at just under 3,000ft, where the signal suddenly and immediately drops out from all of the multiple groundstations at the same time and remains disconnected from all of them for a significant period of time. This indicates that up to that point your PilotAware was working and transmitting its position normally, and that (for whatever reason) it suddenly stopped transmitting. The aircraft appears again just after take off for its return flight at 13:55 local, being reported by stations at Shobdon and Milson (north-east of Shobdon) for a short period of time, until it again dropped out at ~1,850ft well before reaching Leominster - i.e. well to the west of the point where it dropped out on the outbound flight. It reappeared (again suddenly) at 14:12 (local) at ~3,500ft over Acton Green (reported again by multiple ground stations at the same time from the point at which it appears) and continued to report solidly via multiple groundstations until landing back at Enstone at ~14:52.
 
There is another solid track with multiple Groundstation reports from take-off at Enstone at 12:09 (local) on Friday, 11th October, until the signal again drops out suddenly from all of the multiple reporting stations at the same time, as the aircraft approaches Leominster. The aircraft reappears as it takes off from Shobdon at 13.09 (local) and climbs to ~2000ft, at which point the P3i signal again drops out suddenly as it heads east towards Leominster (at about the same point as it dropped out on 3rd October), before re-appearing at ~3,650ft as the aircraft approaches Pershore and remains visible until landing back at Enstone at 13.02 (local).

There is, however, yet another set of reports from the same aircraft on 11th October - departing Enstone at 13:42 (local) and flying to Wolverhampton Halfpenny-Green (EGBO), landing at 14:24 (local) and returning between 15:30 (local) and 16:13 (local), with no drop-outs at all during either of those two later flights on that same day (which of anything adds to the confusion).

The only reported difference between the above flights (apart from the destination) seems to have been that the pilots on each occasion used their own tablets (with of course their own tablet and 'Nav' software).

I have to say that the suddenness of the dropouts and re-appearances make me sceptical as to the cause being a 'simple loss of GPS'. Whilst loss of GPS can of course cause dropouts (PilotAware won't transmit if it isn't certain of its correct position), these would normally manifest themselves as irregular (and usually short) gaps  - both in transmission and in (for example) SkyDemon Track Logs - as the GPS dongle loses and re-acquires signals from the GPS satellites. More prolonged drops are likely to indicate a more serious fault, such as a loss of power, or a range of other issues. The actual reason(s) should however (dependent on software version) be recorded in the onboard PilotAware Track Log - which is why Lee has asked you for these. Without access to the actual track logs for the flights from the PilotAware concerned, we can at this stage only make 'educated guesses' as to the cause.

In the meantime, if you would like to see the Groundstation Tracks for yourself, you can do so by clicking on the following link, then selecting the appropriate date and time for the start of the flight and (I would suggest at least initially) a 3 hour search window. You can then narrow the search window and then follow through the flight by dragging the 'marker' along the lower profile screen - adjusting the zoom and chart position as necessary as you go.

https://playback.pilotaware.com/playback/groundstations/?ICAO=404C04&RxType=PAW&adbVariant=*&Station=*

Looking forward to seeing the Track Files.

Best Regards
Peter

p.s if you need help in downloading and sending in the tracks - just ask!

Joe M

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2024, 05:14:54 pm »
Thank you for those replies Lee and Peter. I’ve been away for a few days so have only just caught up with them. I’m going to the airfield on Tuesday so will download the track files then.

Joe M

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2024, 05:03:49 pm »
I now have the track files. The two most relevant on the 11th October when I "lost" Pilot Aware in flight are chunky files too big to attach here.

The flight from Enstone to Shobdon (losing Pilot Aware near Leominster) is 14.7MB.
My take off from Shobdon (losing Pilot Aware as I climbed away in the overhead) is 1.8MB.

What is the best way to send them?

Many thanks, Joe

Admin

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2024, 08:07:54 am »
Hi Joe

Do yo have a file sharing app such as
OneDrive
Google
Dropbox

You can place the files in one of those, then send me the link in a PM

Thx
Lee

steveu

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2024, 09:45:03 am »
Or WeTransfer - no login needed for smaller files IIRC...

https://wetransfer.com

Joe M

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2024, 11:47:05 am »
Thanks steveu for the wetransfer.com suggestion.

Lee, pm sent with link. Very much appreciate your help with this, it would be nice to understand this better. My syndicate partner and I - like I assume many others - are familiar with the occasional "waiting for device" popping up on our SkyDemon display for a few seconds, but we've not had such a lengthy geographically specific problem before.

Many thanks, Joe




Moffrestorer

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2024, 03:03:42 pm »
May be connected? see Notam EGGN/H/5907/24 (E Band +D Band Hirta, short distance to NW of Shobdon) until 29 November

Sorry, couldn’t send Notam as attachment owing to file size restriction
« Last Edit: October 28, 2024, 03:08:41 pm by Moffrestorer »

Admin

Re: Trouble with Rosetta in Herefordshire
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2024, 04:32:36 pm »
Hi Joe,

you initially said
Quote
Rosetta couldn’t find GPS until back East of Malvern.
Can you provide the exact wording of the error that you saw ?

I suspect that SD was not reporting a GPS error, but was more likely reporting cannot connect to device ?

I can see no loss of GPS in any of the data, however the data is truncated into 3 files
This indicates a catastrophic fail - most likely a power disconnect, and this would explain why there are 3 files as the system rebooted when power is lost

it is not possible to definitively prove this because of course, if the power is lost no writes to the log are made.
Categorically there are no GPS issues, the lock was constant for the entire time the unit was running

can you check the cabling and importantly if any of the connectors feel a little loose.

Thx
Lee