Author Topic: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)  (Read 1140 times)

DY691

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM With Rosetta in France
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2024, 05:28:36 pm »
Thanks Peter for the advice
I have read it carefully and you could remove this message so as not to generate any confusion.

i did the startup test on my tv apart a low volt message at the end of the startup with paw login at the end....
unfortunately I still have the red tabs I'm going to reinstall the file 20230316 and I'll keep you posted.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2024, 08:39:48 am by exfirepro »

exfirepro

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2024, 09:23:03 am »
Bonjour Guy,

Thanks for the feedback. I have now split this off from the previous thread.

The low-voltage report is noted, but shouldn't be the root of the problem as the P3i and Baro were previously showing 'red' without any Voltage Errors reported on your Home Screen.

Let me know once you have loaded and installed a new copy of the software. You may find it useful to reconnect the monitor during the initial boot so you can monitor progress as the software unpacks and loads (it takes about 15 to 20 minutes). Remember to take a note of your setup details (especially your licence key) before changing the card as these will need to be put back in manually once the new software has unpacked and installed - (though you can get them from your earlier screenshot if you forget).

Best Regards

Peter

p.s. I just remembered you have access to the Beta software, so it would be worth updating to the latest 20240205 Beta once you have the new card installed, though I don't expect that to resolve the issue.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2024, 09:34:30 am by exfirepro »

DY691

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2024, 10:50:37 am »
Hello
I bought a new micro sd card i formatted it then installed the software 20230316 then installed it again in the rosetta unfortunately thePAW remains red...
I am attaching the screenshots and there is still an error message on the logging page.
Do you have any ideas?
Sincerely
Guy

DY691

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2024, 10:54:26 am »
Next photos

exfirepro

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2024, 04:36:08 pm »
Hi again Guy,

Thanks for the feedback.

Unfortunately, this post is by its very nature somewhat complex, but please bear with me.

From the logging screen messages, my money is still on a barometer failure, but the problem with remote diagnosis is trying to determine whether there is something else going on in the background that is causing the barometer to stop reporting.

If you were in the UK I'd just get you to send it back for testing, or send you a replacement Bridge to swap in, but I have spoken to Ash (who builds, tests and dispatches the units and tells me you have been in touch about installing another ATOM in the South of France). He advises that returning the unit to the UK from France for testing/repair can cause all sorts of problems with Customs (Douaniers) in both countries, so he advises that we should first try to ensure that the problem is definitely with the Bridge and not the Raspberry Pi.

To do this, we need to open the unit and check if there is a correct voltage on the Bridge (supplied from the Raspberry Pi motherboard).

If you are happy to give this a try, you need to proceed as follows...

Power down the unit and remove the power cable, microSD card and the antennas. Next remove the brass nut securing the P3i SMA terminal (which is part of the Bridge board) into the end of the case (nothing will move at this point).

Now open the top cap at the opposite end of the case. If it hasn't been opened before, you will need to split the PilotAware label along the obvious joint line across the top of the case with a sharp blade. Now gently press down the centre of the cap next to the joint to release the single securing clip and you can slide the top cap away from the body.

Having removed the cap, you now need to split the upper part of the case from the lower part. They are held together by two hidden clips along each side of the case. Start with the one which is mid-way between the audio jack socket and the now open top cover. Push a thin blade gently but firmly into the split line and the upper and lower case should pop apart. Try not to force the blade in too hard or you might break the clip. There is a second clip on the same side mid-way between the power and HDMI sockets, which should pop more easily once the first one is open. You can then do the same with the two clips on the opposite side (which are in exactly the same positions) and carefully remove the upper case - slipping it off the P3i antenna connector which you took the brass nut off earlier. You are now looking at the PilotAware Bridge, which is mounted on top of the Raspberry Pi.

The first thing to check is that the Bridge connector at the right side is fully seated onto all 40 pins of the Raspberry Pi GPIO connector (I'd be extremely surprised if it isn't). Next, temporarily refit the antenna to the P3i connector, replace the microSD card and power lead and power up the unit. You should now be able to clearly see the Red 'Power LED' on the motherboard under the P3i antenna connector and the disc activity LED next to it (which flashes green during boot or when writing data to the microSD card, but is otherwise 'unlit'). As the unit boots, you should also see a couple of LEDs start to flash on the underside of the Bridge at the opposite end to the antenna connector, but ignore these for the moment.

First, you will also see 3 sets of test points, one marked 'IN +5v and GND' and two marked 'OUT +5v and GND' . If you have a multimeter, you should be able to get a reading from these test points with your meter on the low voltage scale - mine are all reading 4.95 volts (with the unit powered off a USB battery pack). This will confirm whether the Bridge is receiving power from the Raspberry Pi.

Next go back to the LEDs on the underside of the Bridge. The one nearest the HDMI terminal is the P3i Transmit/Receive indicator, which will briefly flash red to indicate Transmit and Green to indicate Receive of P3i signals (once the Bridge starts functioning). The other LED (next to the RJ45 Ethernet Socket) is the Bridge Status LED (marked Status on the upper surface of the Board). This will initially flash Red 4 times, then used to progressively change to Green Flashes as each of the various stages became active in the same sequence as the list of reports on the Home Screen, so 1090 Rx, P3i T/Rx, Baro and GPS. This was changed some time ago, however, so that the Status LED simply stops flashing Red when each of the 4 stages becomes active, - so NO Green Flashes on the Status LED. I have just checked one of my test units and get 4 Reds at initial boot, then decreasing to zero as each stage becomes active. Having just brought mine back indoors, it has lost its GPS fix, so there is now just a single red flash (which equates to NO GPS as indicating on the Home Screen) then a long pause which equates to 3 'missing' flashes for the other 3 'working' functions, then a single red again for 'No GPS'. In your case, I would expect to see a blank equal to two flashes, then two red flashes in succession, though that depends on whether your unit is seeing any 1090 traffic.

Give this a try and let me know how you get on.

Best Regards

Peter

DY691

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2024, 09:22:20 am »
Hello Peter
Thanks for your help ????
I started to disassemble the Rosetta (the explanations were very clear, well done).
In fact by opening the top cover the module came by itself I think the 40 pins were badly inserted...I did not go any further and by reinforcing the top module everything went back to normal.
I do have the 4 green tabs????????????
No gliders in sight this morning. I'll check this afternoon to see if the flarms are present.
Thanks for your help
Have a nice day
Best regards
Guy

exfirepro

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2024, 10:53:08 am »
Well done Guy!

As I said earlier, I'm pretty sure I have never come across a Bridge coming loose from the GPIO pins in a Rosetta, though I have seen that happen a few times in the PAW Classic - usually because it had been dropped or shaken about by too many heavy landings  ::).

I'm certainly glad I suggested opening the unit to check though. Good to see it back working again. Every day is a school day as they say.

It's great to get a positive outcome - think we can claim that as a result.

Let me know how it performs once you get back in the air.

A Bientot

Peter
« Last Edit: April 05, 2024, 10:57:56 am by exfirepro »

DY691

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2024, 12:22:51 pm »
Hello
some news about the Rosetta
in flight the 4 tabs are green, I receive the adsb (airliners) and some aircraft in S/C mode with the yellow rectangle in red or green with their exadecimal addresses.
on the other hand, still no metars or meteo on the surrounding airfields.
I do get clouds on the radar page.
Still no flarms despite the green gsm link.
see you soon
Guy

Admin

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2024, 08:22:08 am »
Hi

Can you please share the MAC/hostid address of your device
Thx
Lee

DY691

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2024, 10:26:52 am »
Hi
Mac adress/Hostid
B827EB4F4147
Thx

exfirepro

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2024, 05:15:03 pm »
Bonjour Encore Guy,

Sorry, been busy the last couple of days so missed your post.

Hello
some news about the Rosetta
in flight the 4 tabs are green, I receive the adsb (airliners) and some aircraft in S/C mode with the yellow rectangle in red or green with their exadecimal addresses.
on the other hand, still no metars or meteo on the surrounding airfields.
I do get clouds on the radar page.
Still no flarms despite the green gsm link.
see you soon
Guy

That is disappointing!

I just had another look at the PilotAware Database. I can see Cellular Reports from 38533C for 20240329, 20240407 and 20240408, but other than those, the most recent ADSB reported from 38533C (by PWLFLG2) was on 20240328 and the most recent PAW (again by PWLFLG2) was way back on 20240128. This makes me wonder if the issue is (at least partly) related to distance and lack of ATOM stations in the area - though we did have a bit of trouble with the servers a week or so ago, so there could be some gaps in our data.

I see Lee (Admin) has asked for your unit's MAC. He has more extensive access to the system than I do, so may be able to find out more about what is going on. In the meantime - bearing in mind that radio and cellular reception will both be affected by terrain obscuration to varying extents while flying in such a mountainous area, - can you remind us how far away (approximately) your airfield at Chambery (LFLE) is from Grenoble (PWLFLG2) and how close (again approximately) you actually got to the ground station at Grenoble during your most recent flights.

Best Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: April 10, 2024, 05:36:45 pm by exfirepro »

DY691

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2024, 06:09:17 pm »
Hello Peter
My last flight near the LFLG satation was on 6 April. I passed almost vertically over the LFLG field at 6500ft to the south at 1002 UTC and passed north again at 6500ft almost vertically over the LFLG field at 1323 UTC.
the distance as the crow flies between LFLE and LFLG is 40km but there is a lot of relief between them
I think that the flights on 7 and 8 April were not really flights but ground tests at LFLE to see if I was receiving gliders flying within 5km of my position ... unfortunately no gliders were reported...
Thanks for your help
Have a nice evening
Guy

exfirepro

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2024, 06:50:28 pm »
Postscript:

This is a very puzzling case  ???

Nothing showing on the database for any mode from 38533C from 6th April.

You say that the flights on 7th and 8th April were 'not really flights but ground tests at LFLE (Chambery)' - so I wouldn't expect to find any reports of reception for either of those dates from PWLFLG2 (Grenoble) at 40Km away, which is consistent with my comment that the only reports for those dates were Cellular.

Looking on the PilotAware Playback Site https://playback.pilotaware.com/playback/groundstations/  (...which is based on data collected by the PilotAware ATOM-GRID Network and via iGRID Cellular connection), your aircraft 'pops up' (via its cellular signal) on the ground at Gap Tallard at 16:17 (UTC ?) on 20240407 - a long way from Chambery!! It seems to remain there on the ground at Gap Tallard for about 2 minutes before disappearing 'offline' and I can find no other reports from it that day. In order to get there, by air, you would (presumably) have flown from Chambery right past Grenoble, yet there is no PAW (or ADSB) report on the database from PWLFLG2 to report such a flight. (That is explained by your comments, sent while I was investigating and typing this response, but why would your aircraft show up at Gap Tallard in the first place?)

The next time I can find your aircraft is the following day (20240408), reporting very briefly - again via cellular, but for a few seconds only, back at Chambery at 09:40 UTC before disappearing and reappearing (again via Cellular) apparently heading north past Pontcharra at 09:45. Your comment about the ground tests would explain the unit popping up on the ground at Chambery, but why would it reappear 5 minutes later about 10Km away at Pontcharra - unless that is something to do with the cellular masts that your phone was connecting to during your ground tests.

For completeness, I have just logged in directly to the ATOM at LFLG and it appears to be working normally, reporting both ADSB and Flarm traffic - as I would expect it to.

Hopefully Lee can throw some light on what may be going on.

Best Regards and Bonne Soiree

Peter
« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 08:17:29 am by exfirepro »

DY691

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2024, 07:29:35 pm »
Thank you for your efforts
My flight on the 6th was to Gap ...not the 7th as it was a Sunday and the restaurant is closed on Sundays...
I can confirm that the following days were ground tests.
hoping that Lee will find an explanation
Thanks again
Guy

exfirepro

Re: Problem Receiving FLARM with Rosetta (in France)
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2024, 11:24:21 pm »
The Saga Continues!

I had previously disregarded checking via the Ground Station Replay Tool for 6th April as there was no data reported in the PilotAware database for that date - presumably due to the previously reported server issues.

Wrong decision  ::) !

Looking again at the Groundstation Replay Tool with this new information, I can track your aircraft on PilotAware and Cellular heading south-west towards LFLG from just north of Tencin - reporting at that point on screen as at ~ 5000ft, though your virtual radar 'profile' clearly shows your height as 6000ft plus - but with significant altitude fluctuations*. You are reporting from the same point as connected to the LFLG ATOM as you passed over Laval and Saint Mury-Monteymond, then LFLG lost contact with your PilotAware briefly (probably due to terrain) as you passed south of Lac de Freydieres. It picked you up again very briefly as you crossed the D111 Route de Chamrousse for the first time, then seems to have lost contact with you again (on PilotAware) a few seconds later at 10.04 as you were about to cross the Route de Chamrousse for the second time. Your track, however continues via cellular all the way to your landing at Gap Tallard at 10.32.

* at this time of night, I can't remember what the reason for that is - might be a GPS or Baro issue - perhaps Lee can advise.

I  then see you again (via Cellular) taking off from Gap at 13.05 and can follow you all the way back to your landing at Chambery - mainly on cellular, except for a few small breaks in cellular signal from where you pop back up on PilotAware at 13.20 as you pass over the ridge into the valley south of Grenoble and you then drop out of P3i contact again at 13.24 very near the point at which LFLG first picked you up on P3i on your outward flight. Your track then continues (on Cellular only) all the way back to Chambery.

This means that your PilotAware and iGRID were both working as expected during both flights on 6th April, and confirms that PAW uplink is limited along that route (due to terrain) to the area between Tenom and La Petoune de Belledonne and along the Grenoble Valley in close proximity to the only existing ATOM Station at LFLG - which is exactly as I would expect.

Not sure how I can see the aircraft at Gap on 7th April via a Cellular report, though this looks like a genuine report. I guess it must be a glitch in the data.

The (Cellular) reports I see from your aircraft on the ground at Chambery on 8th April are obviously from when you were looking for the local gliders. The only reason I can think of for not seeing any would be that the local OGN station(s), the gliders themselves, or both, hadn't yet updated their software to the new Flarm Protocol, so they weren't 'visible, or available for uplink locally via iGRID.

This now makes much more sense  :)

Best Regards

Peter

« Last Edit: April 11, 2024, 08:35:37 am by exfirepro »