FX data in and out - Skyview Compatible for both?

[russp]

Looking at the FX unit as maybe worth getting as an upgrade to my Rosetta in a classic case before the rebate scheme ends. I see there is a Data in and out and Data out ports.  I currently feed traffic to my Dynon skyview and GPS from Dynon to PAW via two separate USB cables. To Dynon Skyview is specifically mentioned in the FX blurb on the site but can I use the data in to feed GPS data from my skyview in preference to the onboard FX GPS? I don't need a connection to Flarm.

[PaulSS]

Hi Russ,

I've discussed this with Lee and Ashley and have found it is all possible. Attached is my question in diagram form (the same as yours). I was hoping to have it installed and documented but delayed at the moment.

The main thing is, yes, what you want can be done......it just hasn't been yet 

[russp]

Hi Russ,

I've discussed this with Lee and Ashley and have found it is all possible. Attached is my question in diagram form (the same as yours). I was hoping to have it installed and documented but delayed at the moment.

The main thing is, yes, what you want can be done......it just hasn't been yet 

Thanks for that Paul .. out of interest do you have your PAW feeding traffic into a skyview currently? - mine works great until I turn on the atom grid after which the skyview keeps giving me 'NO FLARM' warnings and the traffic on screen drops out, it's still showing fine on SD so it's clearly an issue with the PAW/Skyview feed and the only thing I can think is that the quantity of information is overwhelming the Skyview. If I keep the atom grid disconnected it doesn't seem to be a problem ... 

[PaulSS]

Yes, my PAW is feeding my HDX with traffic. I have the iGrid dongle and no problems at all. No warning messages and traffic stays shown.

As per my diagram, I have PAW USB port set to Flarm Out and HDX serial port is Flarm Traffic. I've set the baud rate to 115200 on both. Maybe if your baud rate is set lower it might not be fast enough for all the data (a very inexpert analysis I realise).

[russp]

Thanks Paul - I'll check my settings .. and see if it's different on the new loan HDX I have installed currently

[russp]

Hi Russ,

I've discussed this with Lee and Ashley and have found it is all possible. Attached is my question in diagram form (the same as yours). I was hoping to have it installed and documented but delayed at the moment.

The main thing is, yes, what you want can be done......it just hasn't been yet 

Paul

So the new FX unit is on order .. now I just need to source some cables with the right plugs attached and the tech info on which cables into the plug provide the Rx and Tx data feeds for traffic out and GPS in.. don't suppose it can be pushed into the same plug can it rather than needing to use two like the standard PAW?

Have you found details on plugs and connections yet?

Russ
 

[PaulSS]

Hi Russ,

I can see no reason why you can't solder the existing wires to/from your SkyView onto the appropriate wires from the RJ11 connectors plugged into the FX. The wires are teeny and you'd need plenty of strain relief or they'll easily snap. The trouble is trying to crimp the AWG24 (for instance) wires into an RJ11 plug.....they're too big for the holes 

I have asked about the exact layout of the FX RJ11 plugs but have not got a definitive answer. Lee did say to wire them as per Flarm but, unfortunately, they may have had a standard layout once but they don't any more, it would seem. As an example, I have attached what would appear to be the Flarm layout for RJ11, however, the other day when installing a Flarm indicator (LXLED+) we had one manual saying pins 2 & 3 were RS232, 4 GND and 5 DC but a slightly newer manual saying pin 1 is GND, 2 & 3 RS232 and 6 was DC. Same Flarm device and a couple of months difference made a big difference to how they were wired and did nothing to convince me there is a Flarm standard.

SO, the upshot of this is we need a kind soul from PAW to give us the definitive answer on the RJ11 pin layout for the FX. Pretty please 

don't suppose it can be pushed into the same plug can it rather than needing to use two like the standard PAW?

HMmmm, I don't know but I can see no reason why not but it would depend on how the FX has been configured internally. It might be that the 'In' RJ11 socket does not have an RS232 out connection internally and the same for the 'Out' wire. If both RJ11 slots are wired internally for in and out then you could (in theory) use the In from your SkyView GPS serial Out and the Out to your SkyView Flarm Traffic serial In.

SO, another pretty please; are the FX RJ11 sockets wired internally for RS232 in AND out (Rx/Tx)?

[russp]

I have asked about the exact layout of the FX RJ11 plugs but have not got a definitive answer. Lee did say to wire them as per Flarm but, unfortunately, they may have had a standard layout once but they don't any more, it would seem. As an example, I have attached what would appear to be the Flarm layout for RJ11, however, the other day when installing a Flarm indicator (LXLED+) we had one manual saying pins 2 & 3 were RS232, 4 GND and 5 DC but a slightly newer manual saying pin 1 is GND, 2 & 3 RS232 and 6 was DC. Same Flarm device and a couple of months difference made a big difference to how they were wired and did nothing to convince me there is a Flarm standard.

SO, the upshot of this is we need a kind soul from PAW to give us the definitive answer on the RJ11 pin layout for the FX. Pretty please 

don't suppose it can be pushed into the same plug can it rather than needing to use two like the standard PAW?

HMmmm, I don't know but I can see no reason why not but it would depend on how the FX has been configured internally. It might be that the 'In' RJ11 socket does not have an RS232 out connection internally and the same for the 'Out' wire. If both RJ11 slots are wired internally for in and out then you could (in theory) use the In from your SkyView GPS serial Out and the Out to your SkyView Flarm Traffic serial In.

SO, another pretty please; are the FX RJ11 sockets wired internally for RS232 in AND out (Rx/Tx)?

Hoping someone from Pilotaware will pick this up and answer the two questions..

1. we need a kind soul from PAW to give us the definitive answer on the RJ11 pin layout for the FX. Pretty please 

and

2. are the FX RJ11 sockets wired internally for RS232 in AND out (Rx/Tx)?

[russp]

Hi Russ,

I've discussed this with Lee and Ashley and have found it is all possible. Attached is my question in diagram form (the same as yours). I was hoping to have it installed and documented but delayed at the moment.

The main thing is, yes, what you want can be done......it just hasn't been yet 

Well I wired it all up as per your details and went and tried it ... and nothing.. Dynon doesn't see the traffic from the FX and the FX doesn't see the GPS from the Dynon. I wired up the PAW supplied RJ12 connector cable cut in half to a DB9 serial connector to simply mirror the USB to DB9 serial cable currently running from the Rosetta so it seems some clarification of the connections is required - I'll be on to the office tomorrow.

Cables wired as follows :-
PAW supplied leads
RJ12 -> DB9
6- white - GRND  — to pin 5 on DB9
5- black - RS232 data out to pin 3 TX
4- red - RS232 data in to pin 2 RX
3-green
2-yellow
1-blue - 12V out (DO NOT CONNECT)

[Admin]

Hi Russ

I think there is some confusion here


The gps input should be fed into the input flarm nominated rj45, pretending to be a flarm unit which only provides gps and no traffic

The display output rj45 should be used to provide the output gps and traffic

Thx
Lee

[russp]

Hi Lee

Pretty sure they are RJ12 sockets in the FX not RJ45 but that's irrelevant as I used the supplied cable. So to be clear the GPS feed to the FX goes into the socket on the FX marked 'Input' and the cable taking Traffic from the FX is plugged into the 'output' socket? That's what I tried - (I also tried it the other way round just to be sure).

I have had one thought that may be my problem, no common ground as I was powering FX from a battery and skyview may need a common ground the way I wired it .

What I really need is confirmation of the wiring of the RJ12 socket is as Paul posted for Flarm.
RJ12 -> DB9
6- white - GRND 
5- black - RS232 data out
4- red - RS232 data in
3-green
2-yellow
1-blue - 12V out (Not using this)

Thanks, Russ

[russp]

So common ground wasn’t the problem. The Skyview still can’t see the Pilot Aware FX. I’ve wired the input and output cables from the FX as per the Farm diagram above and connected these to the same pins has used for the USB to RS232 cables that the Rosetta successfully was using.I’ve run out of ideas now and other than concluding that the FX unit is supplying incompatible data and is unable to receive the NMEA data in. I don’t know where to go?

[PaulSS]

As I said, Russ, I did ask for clarification of the RJ12 wiring but have not yet got the definitive answer. I assumed it would be the Flarm wiring I supplied but I have found differences even to that recently. The wiring to the Flarm input of the LED+ indicator has changed in the last few months, which leads me to suspect that not all Flarm outputs are equal and, therefore, not all Flarm wiring diagrams are to be taken as read 

I think it's going to be a matter of trial and error but I'm not in a position right now to do so.

[exfirepro]

Hi Guys,

For clarification - RJ11 and RJ12 are both 6-pole connectors, but the older RJ11 only uses 4 internal conductors (wires) whereas RJ12 uses 6 wires.

RJ45 is a similar type of connector but is 8-pole. The Data Input and Data Output sockets used in Rosetta FX are both 8-pole RJ45 type, though it should be noted that 6-pole RJ12 plugs will fit into the centre 6 poles of an RJ45 socket.

Standard Flarm protocol uses a 6-pole convention, with the connectors designated as: -

Pin 1. Power Input (Normally + 12 volts DC)
Pin 2. Power Output (3.3Volts DC - to power Flarm Displays)
Pin 3. Ground (for Flarm Displays)
Pin 4. (output) Data out RS232 – transmit line
Pin 5. (input) Data in RS232 – receive line
Pin 6. Ground (Supply Negative)

Pins are numbered from right to left, with the securing clip 'below' the plug - or at the bottom of the socket.

The change from 6-pole RJ12 to 8-pole RJ45 (at least as far as Flarm was concerned) simply resulted in the addition of 'duplicate' positive and negative supply options on the two 'new' outer pins 1 and 8 respectively, with the inner 6 'original' pins simply being renumbered, but remaining in exactly the same order as they always have been (unless someone can show me evidence to the contrary that they have changed again since). Note you can't rely on wiring colours in commercially available cables - you MUST check the wiring colours against the pins - at both ends of a cable!!!

Looking at my PowerMouse Manual for example (which is the most recent Flarm Device I own), it uses 8-pole RJ45 plugs and sockets with the same standard Flarm wiring convention.

Pin number / Description
      1          Power input +12 volts
      2          Power input +12 volts
      3          3.0V Indicator power output
      4          Ground
      5          Data output (TX)
      6          Data input (RX)
      7          Power input - negative
      8          Power input - negative

FX wiring is essentially the same. If it wasn't, my 'standard' setup with PowerMouse powering and supplying data (GPS and Flarm Traffic)  to FX, which in turn powers and provides direct through-put Flarm Traffic and Alert data to my LXNav FlarmLED display wouldn't work - (and it works perfectly).

The only departure I am aware of is that (unless it has changed in the production units) FX doesn't have 12 volt power on the Data Output port - so you can't power the Flarm Unit from the FX - though I will check this when I can get hold of the designers.

Regards

Peter