Software upgrade and ghosting

[marioair]

So SS uses hex code as well. I’ll ask my friend but I’m pretty sure he’ll have put in his own planes hex, which is NOT what Lee has flagged as my ghost in PAW log.

[marioair]

i've confirmed that my passengers SafeSKY WAS setup correctly with the correct hexcode for my aircraft. So not sure what this random hex code is. interestinlgy SafeSky have said:

393F76 is not registered in SafeSky transponder list.

https://forum.safesky.app/t/ghosting-on-skydemon/784

[marioair]

And i also received this from SafeSky as well:

I just checked for your flight, and I can see the traffic from hex code 40651B:

from PilotAware
as MODE-S using multi-lateration
as SafeSky from the app
By design, SafeSky will show the most up-to-date and precise traffic location, regardeless of its source.

There is nothing in our logs that relates to 393F76. Could you please followup with PilotAware, and share with us their findings? Could it be that they do not de-duplicate traffic and were generating ghost alerts in PAW?

I suspect that on SafeSky, there was no alerts, since those 3 sources were you.

[Admin]

@marioair
could you tell your friend to turn on his safesky, I am monitoring the data feed and want to see if the ICAO address re-appears
thx
Lee

[Admin]

I just configured mine to emit an ICAO code of 40526F

But this is what was produced and sent to the OGN
SKY475048>OGNSKY,qAS,SafeSky:/192459h5223.53N/00127.45W'245/000/A=000239 !W42! id20475048 +000fpm gps17x6

I then changed to 444444, and it produced
SKY7F411F>OGNSKY,qAS,SafeSky:/193159h5223.53N/00127.45W'235/000/A=000239 !W31! id207F411F +000fpm gps5x3

I entered your code 40651B, and I got
SKY47CF4B>OGNSKY,qAS,SafeSky:/193338h5223.53N/00127.45W'235/000/A=000239 !W31! id2047CF4B +000fpm gps5x3

it seems safesky are scrambling the real ICAO code when sending to the OGN - that seems like a very silly thing to do for compatibility

[marioair]

Would you be willing for me to post that on the SS support thread I have? That’s fairly fundamental. And also I don’t understand how SS would work on its own if you’re in a plane with both SS and a transponder.  Unless it gets the transponder data via “MLAT” and also scrambles that to the same hex as SS. if the makes sense

[Admin]

Looks like they are illegally harvesting data and scrambling for their own purpose
Feel free to follow up

[marioair]

@marioair
could you tell your friend to turn on his safesky, I am monitoring the data feed and want to see if the ICAO address re-appears
thx
Lee

It was switched on between 21.29 and 21.39 U.K. local tonight using my hexcode. Let me know what you see

[Admin]

I dont see the same code as previously - but all the identifier codes are scrambled

[marioair]

Could it be this?
https://forum.safesky.app/t/call-sign-is-not-visible/747/4

SafeSky assumes you wish to remain anonymous. For callsign to show you need to go into settings bottom right. Then on next page click top right above your profile name. This now enters your profile info. Scroll down until you see Public Profile and switch this on. Now click save top right. I would then log out and log back in. You should now, and everyone else, see your call sign instead of just your aircraft symbol. Cheers

[Admin]

No, that just shares on their system
They are scrambling icao codes to the OGN

[marioair]

Thanks for copying the reply, it’s pretty clear now. Indeed, to guarantee being anonymous when needed from SafeSky to OGN, we are creating a hash of the internal id. In this specific case, since the PAW id was encoded in safesky (would be the same for an ads-b or mode-s ICAO hex), we should simply respect and pass over the entered id. That way, PAW will receive it and will be able to deduplicate the traffic naturally.

Thanks a lot for raising this point to us, we are going to take an action and fix this.

Fly safe,

Tristan

[marioair]

Above is update from SS.

My response to them
:

Thanks.  Is it legal to transmit false IDs?

I’m not sure what you mean by anonymous? Data transmitted on ADSB and mode S carries the proper hex code. It’s a core part of the standards. I think it’s a massive manipulation of the ecosystem if the codes of aircraft are collected from OGN and then scrambled by SS? Do OGN know you’re doing this?

If the intent is to protect the personal identity of the pilot then their ownership details with the aviation authority should be anonymous. Not the call sign. 

[steveu]

PMSL, very "Safe".

Scrambling ICAO codes defeats just about every type of filtering to avoid duplication. It also could lead to mistaken aircraft information.

In this case, it has led to a false alert or a ghost aircraft...

[marioair]

Yup. Hopefully it's a well intended but naive mistake that will be sorted out.

As an aside...i have always worried about the security of the whole ecosystem and what nefarious manipulaiton could do