Author Topic: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S  (Read 1163 times)

Gary Nelson

Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« on: January 24, 2022, 06:42:47 pm »
I have a Rosetta with a Flarm mouse plugged into it and feeding into Sky Demon. I also have a Funke transponder that transmits Modes S and uncertified ADSB. I have noticed the PAW Vector tool shows a strong signal for my Flarm and ADSB but zero signal for PAW and Mode S? I have checked four other plane HEX codes that I know transmit PAW and Mode S. While these show PAW, none of them show Mode S either? Any idea?

Not sure if related to above, but flying back from Sandown on Saturday with 3 other planes (all of us with PAW) one pilot could see two of me on his Sky Demon. See two red planes on below (both me). The real "me" directly behind in his 6 o'clock but also doppelgänger me some way off in his 4 o'clock . Recently I have also noticed I sometimes see myself twice on Sky Demon with my doppelgänger in my 6 o'clock lagging slightly behind "me"? It would be good to understand what is going on and how to stop it.


« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 06:45:27 pm by Gary Nelson »

exfirepro

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2022, 09:26:57 pm »
Hi Gary,

The reason for no Mode-S reports on Vector is the easy bit and has been publicised several times here and elsewhere since shortly after the Vector Tool was first introduced.

Mode S reports were available in the early days of Vector development and worked extremely well (I have several examples on file). The problem was that when the Tool was released and made freely available to all (not just PilotAware Users) on the PilotAware website, we rapidly found that we were having to store ever increasing amounts of Mode-S data on the servers to meet the demand and that the processing and levels of data required to create and display Mode S reports was significantly affecting other more important functions. The decision was therefore taken to suspend the provision of Mode S reports, but to leave the option in place so it can be easily reactivated if/when the problem is resolved. Reports on your ADSB, Flarm and PilotAware transmissions should however be available.

OK, I have just looked up your ICAO Hex from previous posts and checking the PilotAware Database (from which the Vector reports are compiled), I can find plenty of recent ADSB and FLARM reports, but no PilotAware reports under your official ICAO Hex since 23 September last year - which explains why there are no PilotAware Reports on Vector as they are based on something like the last 30 days of data.

For some reason your PilotAware stopped transmitting using your ICAO Hex Code after 23rd September. This could be because the licence key for your unit expired, or the previously correctly set Hex ID for some reason reverted to the initially allocated ‘MAC based’ default instead of your correct ICAO Hex. Unfortunately I can’t check for reports under the MAC derived Hex is as I don’t have access to the section of the database containing your MAC address. You can, however, get it from your PilotAware or from your last licensing renewal paperwork (I need the last 5 figures from the 12 digit MAC starting B827EB... to recheck the database).

This could also (at least in part) explain the presence of your ‘duplicate aircraft’, though there are a number of other areas which we may also need to investigate.

Firstly, you need to check that all of your devices are set to transmit the same identifier - namely your officially allocated ICAO Hex code.

Secondly, can you confirm that you have updated your PilotAware software to the latest (20220101) release? (which contains a number improvements designed to minimise the possibility of this type of problem).

If neither of these resolves the issue we will need to investigate further.

Please let me know how you get on.

Best Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: January 24, 2022, 11:12:26 pm by exfirepro »

Gary Nelson

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2022, 05:48:27 am »
Hi Peter

1. The last 5 digits are AEA32

2.  I received a new PAW key on 26th Sept 2021. I thought I entered that and also thought I upgraded the SW. I will check both tomorrow and report back

Many thanks

Gary

exfirepro

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2022, 09:20:57 am »
Hi Gary,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I have checked the database for FAEA32 (which is the default Hex Code for your Rosetta) and your flights from 23 October 2021 to 22 January 2022 are all there, which means that your PilotAware is definitely transmitting, and that your PilotAware has definitely reverted to the default Hex ID. This most likely occurred when you were entering your new licence key (which fits in with the dates). The most likely scenario is that the unit accidentally changed to its default profile when entering and saving the new key.

The ‘default’ Hex ID also produces a nice strong PilotAware result on the Vector Tool.

Defaulting would also account for your ‘two aircraft’ anomaly. Your own PilotAware (with the ‘wrong’ Hex ID) will see both your Transponder and your Flarm as another aircraft and report them as ‘threats’. The other aircraft you were flying back from Sandown with would also see your PAW and ADSB transmissions as from separate aircraft. The only anomaly is why G-NILT is reporting so far out of position in the screenshot. I would expect it to show slightly behind and slightly above or below your actual aircraft due to processing delays, but not so far off your actual track - unless of course this was due to a Rebroadcast of your Flarm Signal from a Ground Station with a slight error in position.

(p.s. to reduce the likelihood of the unit defaulting in future it is a good idea to delete any unneeded profiles from the profile list.)

Please let us know if all is OK once you revert your PilotAware to it’s correct Profile.

Best Regards once again

Peter
« Last Edit: January 25, 2022, 09:37:19 am by exfirepro »

Gary Nelson

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2022, 11:02:27 am »
Peter

That is great and many thanks. I will check/update tomorrow and report back  :)

Gary

Keithvinning

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2022, 09:24:56 am »
Hi gary

What is your registration

Regards

Keith

Gary Nelson

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2022, 08:57:41 pm »
Peter

1.    My PAW Rosetta had indeed reset to FAEA32 (as you explained, the Rosetta default Hex Code). I put in my correct Hex code into PAW and flew today and saw this evening that the PAW VECTOR tool is once again beginning to show PAW output , so thank you for that.

2.    I am sending my Funke for a SW upgrade to enable it to also report speed and direction (and not just position). I am hoping this will (1) stop other PAW users seeing my microlight facing backwards or sideways on Sky Demon (2) allow Sky Echo users to see my ADSB, which someone suggested may work, without needing to also pay to upgrade my GPS to certified.

PS    Does anyone know what to input in a TRT800 transponder. LX Avionics based at Turweston have very generously lent me this while my own Funke is being upgraded. What great service! The manual (see below) states the Hex + 2 digit AC aircraft category + Flight ID. Any idea if we need this 2 digit AC indentifier here in UK and what would it be for a microlight?



Rgds

Gary

exfirepro

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2022, 09:34:24 pm »
Hi Gary,

Thanks for the feedback. Good to know my original thoughts were correct. Your PAW should now work fine.

OK on the Funke Transponder - I hadn’t picked up that it was one of the older ones. That could explain (at least in part) why G-NILT was showing out of position on the way back from Sandown. Hopefully the updates will sort out the problem.

Have you updated your PilotAware to the new 20220101 software yet? I would strongly advise you to do so for a number of reasons - not least that it includes a ‘fix’ which supplies more detailed GPS data on the ‘Transponder Funke’ setting, specifically to address the issues you have been experiencing.

There is BTW quite a lot of info and advice on using PAW with Funke transponders on this Forum - just go to the Forum Home Screen then enter Funke in the search box at top right and hit the Search button. In the meantime I will take a look at the manual and get back to you.

Best Regards

Peter
p.s. Manual is not showing. Can you post the original link on here, thanks.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2022, 09:36:52 pm by exfirepro »

Gary Nelson

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2022, 09:40:03 pm »
Hi Peter

I actually have a TRT800H (LED version) with SW version 5.3. I am being lent an older one (the TRT800) by LX Avionics. I am sending mine back to Germany now to upgrade, so it will then also transmit speed and direction.

I confirm I am already using PAW 20220101 and upgraded at the beginning of the year, using Neil Hatthaway's excellent updater app.

Kind rgds

Gary

exfirepro

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2022, 09:58:45 pm »
Thanks Gary,

I have been looking at the manual for the TRT800H, which I downloaded from the Funke website as the link in your earlier post doesn’t work and I can’t see the bits you are referring to. Unfortunately the Manual for the older TRT800 is only available from Funke by email request and as a ‘non-Funke customer’ there’s no guarantee they would send me one (though I can try), or can you put it in a Dropbox file (or similar) and send me a link.

That said, there are lots of Funke users on here who can probably answer your question better than I can.

Regards

Peter

Smaragd

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2022, 10:40:33 pm »
If it's an original TRT800 (PN 800ATC-(000)-(000)) it has never been able to transmit ADS-B, in spite of what the manual states.


exfirepro

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2022, 07:07:29 am »
Thanks Gary,

I will take a look.

If you haven’t yet removed your TRT800H it would be worth doing a test flight with the new PAW software first - just to see if that has resolved the ‘pointing wrong way up issue’ with your existing setup. It certainly did in tests. Although I wasn’t personally involved, I know it sorted the problem for Brian M (bnmont) though his transponder had already been updated by Funke and was already running Funke Version 6.3.

Best Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 07:09:29 am by exfirepro »

Gary Nelson

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2022, 07:30:00 am »
Peter

I have had the new PAW software since Jan and ensured the correct Hex was saved yesterday. I then flew to Turweston with someone following in his plane. I was still showing backwards on his Sky Demon at times.

My Funke is now already in the box ready to DHL it to Germany (the £45 courier charge included £3k of insurance). Hopefully the SW upgrade may cure this issue !!

exfirepro

Re: Pilot Aware Vector Tool not showing Mode S
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2022, 01:28:16 pm »
Hi Gary,

Thanks for the additional info. You obviously still need the further update from Funke, after which it should (hopefully) be fine. At any rate, PilotAware has done our bit as the level of data required by Funke (which we now operate to) is well above what most other transponder manufacturers require.
 
Fingers firmly crossed