External antennae on Jodels

[Admin]

@martc
are you sure you have the correct hex code programmed into your PAW ?
I can find no record of this ICAO since November 2020

I have a suspicion the hex code is set to the default for your unit F384E8
I saw this flying 30/June
if so - this has stunning PilotAware coverage

Thx
Lee

[MartC]

Hi Lee, this might be the case, would explain why our navigation was working (Skydemon off the PAW GPS), but I cannot find the vector on our correct Hex ID. The aircraft has been grounded since November due to lockdown /engine rebuild complications, only flying for the first time on 23 June. Until I can get back to the aircraft I can't check, but it would explain if the Hex has reset to default for some reason. I wonder if the settings were inadvertently changed due to the licence software update complication we had. Will report back asap. Regards Martin

[exfirepro]

Hi Mart,

Sorry I got distracted earlier and didn’t get back to the Forum - rain coming in through my Utility Room roof again in today’s thunderstorms, but I see Lee has responded to your HexID post.

As Lee says, there is certainly nothing on the database from 401E9B - neither from PilotAware OR ADSB, which suggests that you may have inadvertently activated the default profile when trying to ‘Save’  the new licence key. The ‘Profile’ select button is right next to the ‘Save’ button at the bottom of the ‘Configure’ screen, and if the profile with the default F384EB Hex has been inadvertently selected (which seems likely as the PAW is clearly transmitting on F348EB), that profile probably won’t contain the correct USB Port settings to supply the GPS data to the transponder for ADSB out - hence no ADSB reports on the PAW database from 401E9B either - which is definitely the case.

Easiest fix would be to reselect the ‘Correct’ Profile - with the correct USB Transponder Port Settings, (check the rest of the settings while you are in there and re-save if you change any), then go back later and delete any unwanted profiles - remembering to reselect the correct one before exiting.

FTAOD, SkyDemon would still get the GPS data, whatever the HexID was set to, so would still work as normal.

Best Regards

Peter

[Mike Mold]

Hi Peter, the description of my Jodel antennae mod is now in the Fixed Installation thread area.
Regards, Mike
Jodel D117A G-BFEH

[exfirepro]

Well Done Mike!

That will be very useful for anyone running PilotAware in a Jodel (or similar) aircraft. The ‘before’ and ‘after’ Vector screenshots clearly show the benefit of getting the antennas outside and your photos complement the written description perfectly.

Thank you

Best Regards

Peter

[MartC]

@martc

I have a suspicion the hex code is set to the default for your unit F384E8
I saw this flying 30/June
if so - this has stunning PilotAware coverage

Thx
Lee

Lee, PAW range approaching 80km on 23 June was at 4000ft. Shorter range produced on 30 June at 1200ft or so, but still a respectable 40km..... vector shows a reasonably even 360 spread suggests a very good result from our external antenna position.

[MartC]

Hi Mart,

As Lee says, there is certainly nothing on the database from 401E9B - neither from PilotAware OR ADSB, which suggests that you may have inadvertently activated the default profile when trying to ‘Save’  the new licence key. The ‘Profile’ select button is right next to the ‘Save’ button at the bottom of the ‘Configure’ screen, and if the profile with the default F384EB Hex has been inadvertently selected (which seems likely as the PAW is clearly transmitting on F348EB), that profile probably won’t contain the correct USB Port settings to supply the GPS data to the transponder for ADSB out - hence no ADSB reports on the PAW database from 401E9B either - which is definitely the case.

Easiest fix would be to reselect the ‘Correct’ Profile - with the correct USB Transponder Port Settings, (check the rest of the settings while you are in there and re-save if you change any), then go back later and delete any unwanted profiles - remembering to reselect the correct one before exiting.

FTAOD, SkyDemon would still get the GPS data, whatever the HexID was set to, so would still work as normal.

Best Regards

Peter

Hi again Peter, now attended to the Pilotaware configuration, selected the correct Hex ID profile and deleted the default, so settings are now as here:

From the vector, we are now getting Pilotaware broadcast correctly, but nothing for ADS-B out, although the settings show the Funke transponder in Port 2. Any reason why the ground network should not see our ADS-B - for example, do the stations local to EGHS (Henstridge) not have that capability? We actually flew (14/7/21) a circular route around Yeovilton, Henstridge-Seaton-Taunton-Wells_Henstridge.

Flight Radar 24 has this for the flight, not sure if that is our Mode S track....
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/g-bhvf#2866392e

ADS-B Exchange has this:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=401e9b&lat=51.069&lon=-2.057&zoom=9.0&showTrace=2021-07-14

Suggests we are broadcasting ADS-B but vector not seeing that, or am I not understanding the websites quoted....?

[MartC]

Here is the ADS-B trace from vector:

[MartC]

Here is our settings configuration page:

[exfirepro]

Hi Martin,

A whole new can of worms opened up when you mentioned a Funke Transponder. Unfortunately I can't get the FR24 track to play, but the adsbexchange trace clearly shows your aircraft constantly oriented Northwards - irrespective of the fact that it was presumably heading straight along the track, - which is a clear indicator that the transponder isn't transmitting the correct data.

Lee has already done a considerable amount of investigation into this phenomenon, which has identified a discrepancy between the format of the data passed to the transponder by PAW and the format which Funke Transponders expect to receive. As a result He has produced a beta version of the PAW software specifically designed to address this issue (though in my opinion, the problem still lies with Funke - NOT PilotAware). This beta software has been tested successfully by at least one other Funke User to my knowledge and I'm sure Lee might like you to give it a try to see if it resolves the problem with your unit.

It would ,however, first be useful to know exactly which model of Funke Transponder you have and what firmware version it is running. Also has it been back to Funke for updating to ensure that it will broadcast ADSB - (Not all work even after 'modification). I would also like you to check that your USB to RS232 cable is in fact in Port 2 (lower left when looking at the USB Port end of the PAW with the ethernet port on the left). We would also need to check the recommended Baud Rate for Funke (I know Trig now recommend a minimum of 9,600Baud).

You can find lots more info about this phenomenon by searching for 'Funke Transponder' from the Forum Home Page.

Best Regards
Peter

[MartC]

Peter, many thanks once again for all your input to this.

Ours is in fact the more recent Funke transponder model TRT800A OLED installed in 2015 by a professional avionics engineer with firmware update 5.3. It does not suffer from some of the problems which beset the earlier models /software, but it does not surprise me that it may not output the correct speed /direction vectors. Although, according to the information on extended squitter operation (ADS-B) published by Funke: "Airborne position and airborne velocity are sent out if reliable data is available"

At the time (February 2020) of our connection by the same avionics engineer of an uncertified GPS (Pilotaware Rosetta) to enable ADS-B out, SIL value on the Funke transponder was set “0” (as per recent LAA approval) and tests carried out satisfactorily confirming ADS-B out working. Although the FR24 trace may not verify as this could be our Mode S transmission I imagine, the ADSBexchange trace I assume is based on an ADS-B signal for our aircraft, albeit not with correct velocity shown (constant pointing north).

Pretty sure the Farnell USB cable is in USB2 slot but will check tomorrow at the aircraft. Also, baud set for 4800 which matches the Funke, again will check this.

We would be happy to trial the beta software and report back. I assume that modifies the GPS information sent by Rosetta to the transponder to 'force' the correct speed/velocity out data?

PS - we wish we'd bought a Trig !

[exfirepro]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the update. Don't know whether Lee want's to publicise what he found with the Funke, but yes - basically a question of a 'missing' decimal point - which AFAWK only 'Funke' seems to need.

I'm sure Lee will be happy to give you access to the beta version to try - it certainly fixed the issue for Brian Montilla.

I have PM'd Lee.

BR
Peter

[MartC]

I would also like you to check that your USB to RS232 cable is in fact in Port 2 (lower left when looking at the USB Port end of the PAW with the ethernet port on the left). We would also need to check the recommended Baud Rate for Funke (I know Trig now recommend a minimum of 9,600Baud).

Best Regards
Peter

Photo attached of Rosetta connections, shows Farnell in USB2, GPS in USB1. Baud rate is 4800 for the Funke, discussed with our avionics guy who thinks it would make no difference re-setting to 9600, although I think the Funke can be set to the higher rate.