External antennae on Jodels

[Mike Mold]

Have any Jodel owners installed external antennae for their PAW kit? I've used my Rosetta on the rear shelf of my D117 and using Vector I've found that the forward looking 30 degrees arc is poor on signal strength due, I'm presuming, to the mass of engine and water (me) in the way. Hence, I'm thinking of fitting external antennae and the logical place to install them is on the lower fuselage behind the trailing edge of the wing, next to the access panel where my xpdr antenna is located. I know that I shouldn't fit the 1090 MHz antenna close to my xpdr antennae but any thoughts would be appreciated. 
Mike (D117A G-BFEH)

[MartC]

Yes - we mounted ours on the aluminium rear fuselage access panel - our transponder antenna on one side, the PAW in/out and ADSB receiver on the other side, spaced apart. Seems to work fine.

[Mike Mold]

I've now done the same with better results from Vector.

[exfirepro]

Mike / Mart,

Well done both - external antennas are almost always a significant improvement, even in flexwings!

It would be really helpful if one (or both) of you fancy writing up brief details of your permanent Jodel fit (with photos / before and after Vector screenshots and any other significant hints or tips) and posting it in the ‘Fixed Installations’ section of the Forum (see previous posts there for examples). That would make it much easier for us to direct other Jodel owners to the details in future.

Best Regards
Peter
(PilotAware Development)

[Ian Melville]

Is there not a danger that we will install antenna to get the best reception in Vector, a ground station analysis, when we should be looking at Air-Air performance first?

[PaulSS]

Is there not a danger that we will install antenna to get the best reception in Vector, a ground station analysis, when we should be looking at Air-Air performance first?

Are the two mutually exclusive? Surely good Vector/ground station analysis = good antenna placement = better air to air than not having good vector/ground station performance.

[Ian Melville]

No they are not. Fit antenna under a metal aircraft and the signal will be blocked above the wing.

[exfirepro]

Ian/Paul,

Whilst that is technically ‘correct’, all the tests we have carried out indicate that it is almost impossible for an inbound aircraft to get to a position where it is ‘obstructed’ directly above or below the PilotAware equipped aircraft without being picked up from further out during the approach.

In any event, external antennas invariably prove more effective overall than internal ones - especially (but not exclusively) in metal-bodied aircraft.

Best Regards

Peter

[Ian Melville]

Peter,
I totally agree regarding having the antenna external.
You may find that at a distance, you can see a target, but I don't think you are likely to have a mid air with those ones . But it will still be partially obstructed if metal or water is placed between the two aircraft. I have seen a PA28 with 1090ES disappear from my PAW as it banked towards me (presenting top of wing to me), and reappear once wings level. I was on the ground and PA28 turned final, no risk in this case, but a good demo of why antenna diversity is a good idea. There is no perfect position for a single antenna, which can only be placed to offer protection in the most likely scenario.

[MartC]

Mike / Mart,

Well done both - external antennas are almost always a significant improvement, even in flexwings!

It would be really helpful if one (or both) of you fancy writing up brief details of your permanent Jodel fit (with photos / before and after Vector screenshots and any other significant hints or tips) and posting it in the ‘Fixed Installations’ section of the Forum (see previous posts there for examples). That would make it much easier for us to direct other Jodel owners to the details in future.

Best Regards
Peter
(PilotAware Development)

Hi Peter, our install was fitted in the Jodel just before first lockdown spring 2020 and we have had little opportunity to flight test, coupled with a protracted engine rebuild this spring which has prolonged our getting back into the air until only recently. Currently running in the new engine (and refreshing pilot currency) and may be little time before we can fully understand and configure our PAW system. Recent flights (after 6 months on the ground) we seem to have had a problem with the licence renewal not updating on the device, so nothing showing on vector for our Hex ID, need to recheck the settings (we have paid this year !!). Otherwise, once we know its all working, will look at sorting out a write up and take some photographs.

Regards
Martin

[exfirepro]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the reply and I appreciate the ongoing issues. It would be great to see a ‘Jodel Fit’ fixed installation option (or options) added to the Forum in due course for the benefit of other Jodel Owners.

With regard to the problem with the licence renewal key not updating on the device, this could be linked to the software version on the device. IIRC if this is one of the older software versions the new licence key will not be recognised. In this case you should first update the software to one of the more recent (2020xxxx) versions. Any problems please come back to me.

Regards

Peter

[MartC]

Thanks for the advice. Its a Rosetta and according to the update app on my phone, current version is 20201101 licence expires 2-May-2022. We have had around 4-5 flights over the past week or so, nothing showing on vector. I think the first couple of flights might have coincided with expiry failure, oddly Skydemon worked perfectly first flight then would not connect second flight, checked through the iPad the pilotaware admin page 192.168.1.1 on the wifi connection whilst still in the aircraft and clicked the 'update software' button, then it seemed to work with in flight navigation normally again. We didn't turn the unit on for the subsequent flights, busy with other snagging. Subsequent check of vector website shows no flights, so I am wondering if the Hex ID has dropped off the settings somehow..... can't check until next back at the aircraft, that's the only problem with a permanent install, the unit is not removable to play with at home. It would be good if the phone app could 'save' the last on-device settings page so that you could see what the Rosetta setup is without being connected 'live' and /or whether it was broadcasting correctly.

[exfirepro]

Original Post Edited Sunday 8am

Hi Again Martin,

From what you say above, it looks like the Licence Key has now been accepted (which it certainly should have been with 20201101). It sometimes requires a shut down and reboot of the device for the new licence date to show - which is probably what has happened here. Pressing the ‘Update Software’ button when your iPad was connected to your Rosetta would have no effect unless a software update had previously been downloaded but not installed.

The ‘No show’ on Vector seems a bit strange, however, if you had the unit running, though it seems there was some confusion as to whether and when the unit was working. When and where were you flying? If you can post (or message me) your HexID/Reg, I will take a look on the PAW database and see what is going on and will let you know what I find.

I will pass your suggestions re the Firmware Updater App on to Neil (the Developer). In the meantime it’s quite simple to take a set of screenshots of the main Home, Configure, etc Screens on your iPad when it’s connected to your PAW. I always try to remember to do this whenever I make any changes to my settings (or when I’m setting up a unit for anyone else) as it acts as a very valuable reminder - and can be posted on here to assist with remote diagnosis.

Best Regards

Peter

[MartC]

Very helpful thanks Peter. Hex 401E9B G-BHVF vicinity of Henstridge - Yeovilton. 23 June 2021 1145-1600 (subsequent flights not sure if PAW activated as we were looking at other aspects, although it was plugged in so should have been transmitting). Our PAW is connected to transponder for ADSB-out.

[steveu]

Very helpful thanks Peter. Hex 401E9B G-BHVF vicinity of Henstridge - Yeovilton. 23 June 2021 1145-1600 (subsequent flights not sure if PAW activated as we were looking at other aspects, although it was plugged in so should have been transmitting). Our PAW is connected to transponder for ADSB-out.

If the PAW was on and had GPS lock it will have recorded a .trk file for the days in question, connect your device to the PAW Wifi, download the .trk file(s) then upload then to Aircrew, replay the flight and see which ground stations the PAW connected to in the flight and the distances involved.