Author Topic: Ongoing power problems  (Read 2479 times)

Robin

Ongoing power problems
« on: April 10, 2021, 03:59:18 pm »
Ever since I purchased my Rosetta several years ago, I have always had apparant power supply problems. Not only has the browser home page shown 'Volt=Warning' and 'Throttle=Warning' almost continuously since then but in addition I don't think I've ever completed a flight without the unit temporarily 'losing' the GPS signal at some point. I have always assumed the GPS failures have been caused by insufficient 'power'.

Over the years I have tried to fix this issue by upgrading the various power supply components - heavy duty usb cables, Anker PowerDrive socket adaptor, and PowerCore power pack, all to no avail.

Over last winter I went for the nuclear option. As the attached photos show, I now have a Harkwood 2 port charger, and power cables that would not look out of place powering up Sizewell B.

Unfortunately, as the attached shot of the browser home page shows, the power is still not right. I haven't flown the plane yet this year - these photos were taken in a shed, hence the lack of GPS satelites and an incorrect time. Could someone please suggest what I could try next? Could it perhaps be a hardware problem internal to the RPi?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards,

Robin.

steveu

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2021, 04:52:08 pm »
if you buy one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153431600450



and insert it in the USB port coming out of the Harkwood, it will show if your Rosetta is taking too much current or the voltage is low to it.

Given my (superb) experience with the Harkwood so far, on others aircraft I help them out with, I'd gues the Pi may be loading things down a bit, especially as you've tried a lot of other avenues.

This is just a measurement suggestion. I use them all the time for work, and carry them.

For an answer, you'll need a proper PAW support person.

Robin

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2021, 05:11:40 pm »
Thanks for the link - looks like a very useful bit of kit for lots of uses. I've ordered one.

Regards,

Robin

Ian Melville

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2021, 07:45:00 pm »
Not keen on that heavy connector and cable hanging off the Micro-USB connector. This is one port that I dislike about the RPi versions 1 to 3. It really isn't up to the job. I do wish Lee had carried through with a robust DC in connector.

I suspect that the fault lies with the RPi it's self. Though it may be a damaged Micro USB socket.

Cheers
Ian

JCurtis

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2021, 08:30:03 pm »
You can use the port on the back of the Charge2 with some terminal software and it will show the current draw on the port. 

I have seen recently a PAW that was getting 5v at the Polyfuse report a Voltage warning.  Which was a surprise and seemed odd, it seemed to be working fine.

Note, many of those USB power monitor devices will correctly (well close enough) show you the voltage going into them, but there will be a drop on the output port. 
Designer and maker of charge4.harkwood.co.uk, smart universal USB chargers designed for aviation.  USB Type-A and USB-C power without the RF interference. Approved for EASA installs under CS-STAN too.

steveu

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2021, 11:48:43 pm »
You can use the port on the back of the Charge2 with some terminal software and it will show the current draw on the port. 

Is there a link to some destructions, please?

I got to here:

https://charge4.harkwood.co.uk/support/

and here:

https://charge4.harkwood.co.uk/support/faq/

but being a bear of little brain I wasn't sure if I could just put serial parameters into a terminal program on any OS then press any key, or if I needed the Charger Manager software?

I've look on my keyboard but can't find an "Any" key...   :)

.NET means Windows?


JCurtis

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2021, 08:45:54 am »
You can use the port on the back of the Charge2 with some terminal software and it will show the current draw on the port. 

Is there a link to some destructions, please?

I got to here:

https://charge4.harkwood.co.uk/support/

and here:

https://charge4.harkwood.co.uk/support/faq/

but being a bear of little brain I wasn't sure if I could just put serial parameters into a terminal program on any OS then press any key, or if I needed the Charger Manager software?

I've look on my keyboard but can't find an "Any" key...   :)

.NET means Windows?

For the V1 units, such as yours, you can use any serial terminal program. Plugging it into most computers will auto install it as a serial port. The details are in the v1 user manual (page 4). By default it will output the status of the ports every few seconds, no need to do anything bar set the post speed in your terminal software. If you then send any character it will go into the menu.

For the v2 units there is a Windows utility to display power and manage charger profiles.  Plus a separate utility to update the firmware in the charger when required.
Designer and maker of charge4.harkwood.co.uk, smart universal USB chargers designed for aviation.  USB Type-A and USB-C power without the RF interference. Approved for EASA installs under CS-STAN too.

exfirepro

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2021, 11:08:37 am »
Hi Robin,

As you say in an earlier post on another thread that you bought your Rosetta at Sywell in September 2018, I’m surprised to hear you have been experiencing power and GPS issues this long without resolution. I’m very pleased to hear/see that you have installed one of Jeremy’s excellent Charge2 power units, which should exclude power issues with the supply - unless your aircraft is supplying less than something like 10 volts (I can’t remember the exact figure - I’m sure Jeremy will confirm).

I have to say, the cabling you have adopted looks a bit over the top to me and will certainly be putting a considerable strain on the microUSB socket in the PAW (which I’d say is the most likely cause of your current problems - sorry no pun intended). How far away from the supply is the Rosetta normally located (from the photo it looks like it’s on a workbench or something - not in the plane!). A description or photo of where it’s normally mounted in the plane might help clarify the situation.

While we always stress using the supplied 1 metre JuicEBitz power cable (because of its 20AWG power wires) and limiting to the supplied 1m length, I have in the past successfully run PAW units using 2metre JuicEBitz cables (though can’t guarantee that this will work in every case and if the socket has already been damaged that won’t relieve the issue).

If, as I suspect, the socket has been damaged, it ‘can’ be ‘re-tightened’ slightly - or replaced, but this is not a job for the amateur solderer - and is usually more economic to replace the Raspberry Pi Motherboard.

Alternatively, if you also suspect that there are other internal issues it might be best to arrange to return the unit to PilotAware for testing / repair. Contact Ash via support@pilotaware.com .

Regards

Peter

Robin

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2021, 02:50:59 pm »
Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply.

The photos above were taken with the PAW unit attached in the plane, which is a Mk2 Kitfox with a clear top. The PAW unit is velco'd to a ledge I've contructed at the junction of a couple of roof tubie members, although for the photo I had to hold it slightly away from its usual position for the photo to 'work'. The cable length is approx 1m. There is no strain on the microUSB socket as the wiring/plug are supported by cable ties to a steel tube. I get the same power errors regardless of which lead I use, wether it be the one supplied by you or other heavy duty ones acquired since, and using any one of the various power supplies you recommend.

I am tending to believe that there is an internal problem with the Pi - power socket or otherwise. I think I'll take up your suggestion of returning to you for repair - at least that would eliminate one uncertainty.

Regarsds,

Robin.

exfirepro

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2021, 03:14:40 pm »
Hi Robin,

Thanks for the update. I am familiar with the Kitfox - A mate at our field flies G-BUKF. A photo of the unit ‘in situ’ would still help to orientate things though. From the photo it’s very hard to determine which way up the PAW is fitted, as the bottom of photo 2 looks like the Kitfox roof? Also are the antennas normally horizontal? They need to be vertical - either up or down, though may just have been moved to allow you to take the picture. Won’t affect the power issue of course, but would certainly significantly affect the GPS if unit fitted upside down.

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 03:20:44 pm by exfirepro »

Robin

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2021, 04:12:05 pm »

This is what it looks like in situ. I've had it there for the past two years, either powered from a 12v socket (using an Anker adaptor) or from a PowerCore brick. Until this winter I've used the cable you supplied. The latest wiring hasn't been used 'in anger' yet.

Regards,

Robin.

exfirepro

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2021, 06:15:48 pm »
Thanks Robin,

That’s what I was hoping I would see and fits with my previous knowledge of the Kitfox.

The unit is the right-way-up so there should certainly be no issues with the GPS getting (and holding) a fix there under the clear roof panel. The antennas should also work pretty well, though they might be more effective if the unit was rotated 180 degrees, putting the antennas further back away from the metalwork across the top of the windshield. Just a thought - it would be trial and error and might not be any better.

It doesn’t explain your power problems though. I think returning the unit for bench testing would be worthwhile to see exactly what is going on. Ash should be able to arrange this with you if you get in touch via the e-mail address above.

Regards

Peter

steveu

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2021, 08:41:12 pm »

For the V1 units, such as yours, you can use any serial terminal program. Plugging it into most computers will auto install it as a serial port. The details are in the v1 user manual (page 4). By default it will output the status of the ports every few seconds, no need to do anything bar set the post speed in your terminal software. If you then send any character it will go into the menu.


Tried it, but couldn't find the parameters on page of of the manual but they are in the FAQ. 57600, 8, N, 1 for anyone else.

I used PuTTY and saved the session.

Thanks for this, it's a brilliant and easy tool to use.

PAW took about 590-720mA, but I don't think the GPS acquired (under a tin roof) so assume the radio bridge didn't fire up in TX mode.

A Nexus 7 2013 took 1150-ish mA from the other port on charge whilst on.


JCurtis

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2021, 08:48:31 pm »
Tried it, but couldn't find the parameters on page of of the manual but they are in the FAQ. 57600, 8, N, 1 for anyone else.
Odd, I downloaded the v1 manual from the website (there are different tabs for version 1 and version 2)...

Quote
Diagnostics Port
On the rear of Charge2 is a mini-USB socket which gives additional information over the status lights. It can be used to see the state of the ports and how much power is being drawn per port. When connected to a computer this port emulates a Serial interface. You will need serial console software, such as Hyperterminal, to connect to the port.
Baud Rate 57600 Data Bits 8 Parity None Stop Bits 1
No Flow Control
The port will provide the status of the ports every few seconds or details of any faults detected. E.g.;
     Port 1: Charging (2264ma)
     Port 2: Charging (0967ma)
Pressing any key will bring up a menu, from which various options are available. Exiting from the menu returns to the default of outputting the port status every few seconds.

The PAW power is about right, the larger burst of current when it transmits isn't very long so won't get seen.  The chargers have a very fast transient response and recovery so a bursty draw from the likes of a PAW is not a problem.
Designer and maker of charge4.harkwood.co.uk, smart universal USB chargers designed for aviation.  USB Type-A and USB-C power without the RF interference. Approved for EASA installs under CS-STAN too.

Robin

Re: Ongoing power problems
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2021, 06:08:05 pm »
Hi Peter,

I've now sent an email to the support address you mentioned, so I'll wait to hear from Ash.

Regards,

Robin.