Author Topic: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8  (Read 575 times)

PeterD

Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« on: November 29, 2020, 10:40:05 am »
Hi all,
 looking for information from other Luscombe 8 owners on aerial/antenna installation for PAW external fit. Or other similar aircraft.
I have a Trig TT22, TN72, TA70 and AV74 Antenna. So now have ADS-B out.
AV74 fitted just forward of frame 4.
Strobe about frame 3. Wind generator about frame 2.
Thinking of putting PAW antennas, forward of wind generator, ie between frame 1 and 2.
Any thoughts / suggestions / or what have others done ?
Kindest regards,     Peter
 

UPDATE !!   
Ok, so while I’m still thinking about “permanent installation“, I have jury rigged my PAW and fitted AIRCREW on RAM mounts.
 The PAW will go under instrument panel, probably against firewall, when I decide to do it. Wanted to try it all before drilling holes/cutting metal !

Tip : how do you know if Bluetooth connected ?
 Had 3.5 jack connected to PAW / BOSE A20 , when it was connected by Bluetooth, as well, the ladies voice says, “Pilot Aware”, twice !
 Only did it once, before I got Bluetooth to connect!

       Best wishes,  Peter


       
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 09:51:05 am by PeterD »

PeterD

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2021, 12:32:56 am »
Quick update:
                    RAM mount holding PAW, would not stay in position, on instrument panel .
Kept falling off. Too cold ?
Anyway, relocated to rlght side of windscreen. Happily, stays put !
Will post photos of Vector results, another day.
Best wishes, Peter

exfirepro

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2021, 01:28:21 pm »
Hi Peter,

Good set of photos there.

I take it the ‘blade’ type antenna is the transponder. If so keep the PAW 1090 one well away from it. In practice you will probably be fine keeping the PAW 1090 on the Rosetta as 1090 signals are strong.

If putting P3i onto an external antenna, you need to be aware of screening by all those big chunky metal bits (undercarriage legs and generator or whatever that is between them). That means either in front of them (if possible), or fairly well back, but not too near the transponder antenna - a couple of feet away from it should be fine.

Hope this helps.

Well done on the Aircrew BTW - I have mine mounted on the front strut of my flexwing, just below eye level - so excellent as a Traffic Screen (and works pretty effectively as an AH if inadvertently into cloud) or so I have been informed by a friend  ;)

Best Regards

Peter R

Ian Melville

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2021, 05:09:16 pm »
Quote
In practice you will probably be fine keeping the PAW 1090 on the Rosetta as 1090 signals are strong.

From Mode A, C and S Transponders, then yes.
However the same antenna is used to pick up CAP1391 devices  with weak ADSB signals, often masked by airframe or bags of water. I was thinking of posting on a ATOM group asking if we should be re-thinking the antenna choice in this band. It's at the heart of my thinking that ADSB is a poor system.

exfirepro

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2021, 09:45:15 pm »
Good point,

I hadn't thought about that Ian, but you are of course correct. We should of course always endeavour to maximise the efficiency of our own installations to offset potentially less than optimal performance in other aircraft or systems.

There is no problem in fitting an external antenna for 1090MHz - but you do need to ensure sufficient physical separation between it and your (transmitting) transponder antenna, or you run a significant risk of the transponder signal swamping the PAW 1090 Receiver front-end. I experienced that myself when I first tried both P3i and 1090 external antennas under my flexwing pod as I was unable to achieve sufficient separation (even at a metre apart) and experienced some strange effects, so had to revert to the standard 1090MHz antenna mounted on my Rosetta. The P3i side at that distance apart, however, performs admirably.

Regards

Peter

PeterD

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2021, 08:57:58 am »
Hi Peter & Ian,
                     Yes, that is my "wind generator" Basic Aircraft Products , Turbo Alternator BPE-14. Seems to produce electricity, well enough. Fitted before I bought the Luscombe.
                 My current thoughts are, to fit P3i just behind the "firewall", not sure if possible to fit exactly on "centre-line" ? 
The 1090 RX would then be fitted approx 150 -200 mm away, opposite side of "centre-line". 
Trying to keep away from u/c legs (masking signal) and Turbo Alternator.
When i fit PAW, under instrument panel, against "firewall", are you suggesting, keep 1090 RX antenna inside acft, possibly on windscreen with an internal antenna ?
Best wishes ,  Peter

ADS-B Vector 08 March 2021 Trying to figure out how to post a photo !? Not very good at this !

exfirepro

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2021, 01:16:41 pm »
Hi Peter D,

Thanks for the info - I had assumed it was an alternator, so nice to have confirmation.

I only suggested that you might need to keep the 1090 antenna on the Rosetta to avoid possible interference from your own transponder, but in view of Ian’s comments and your intention to fit your PAW under the instrument panel this wouldn’t of course work due to screening by the airframe. Your proposal to fit both antennas outside (effectively side by side) would be much better. It’s not in any way critical that they will be off centreline. No problem either in fitting PAW under the panel (that’s where I have mine - just in a slightly smaller fibreglass aircraft  :) ), just use a remote GPS Mouse, (ideally located right-way-up on top of the coaming) or relocate the existing GPS there on a short USB extension cable.

Re your Vector ADS-B screenshot, I can easily post it for you if you’d like to give me your Aircraft Reg or Hex ID.

Best Regards

Peter

PeterD

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2021, 09:06:28 am »
ADS-B Vector 08 March 2021
Trig system, ONLY.  TT22, TABS TN72, Antennas: XPDR, RAMI AV-74 ,  GPS Trig/RAMI TA70/AV801
 I'm doing it this way, to make a "comparison".

Thanks for offer, posting photos, i have tried to remember how i did it last time  :'(

For info: i have already fitted the GPS away from PAW, centre of windshield, on instrument panel. clear view of sky.
  AIRCREW, also has it's own little GPS, tucked down left side of windshield.   Apparently , it will chose "best signal", seems a good back up,  to me !

            Best wishes,   Peter D

PeterD

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2021, 09:55:26 am »
PAW Vector  07 April 2021
Quadrant, 6 to 7 o'clock, not too good. That'll be ME, in the way ! Solo flight.
I'm wondering how different it might look when flying with a passenger ?
Note to self, DON'T tell OFCOM !!  ::)

ADS-B Vector 07 April 2021
Looking at ADS-B, only, on same day/flight.

ADS-B, PAW Combined Vector 08 Mar/ 07 April 2021
Almost solid coverage, up to 20 KM, approx 12.5 Nautical miles.

Map shows area of flight, 07 April 2021.
In reference to Atom stations, for those that know where they are ?

I believe that the "obscuration" problem will be over come, by re-locating Antenna's externally, but at present i need to get some more flying in !

Hope this helps some, "visitors" to get the funding, whilst it's still available and get either this or another product.
I know I've opted for a very expensive route but, I wanted the very best "out" signal and now "in" signal. Just hope that I'm "future proofed" for a while.
Best wishes,     Peter D

exfirepro

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2021, 01:00:52 pm »
Hi Again Peter D,

Thanks for posting the Vector Diagrams. Very impressive coverage from both PAW and your Full Transponder ADS-B. I have had a Trig TT21 running Mode-S ES since 2015, but still have to fit my TN72/TA70 to upgrade to SIL/SDA 1.

Yes, I guess the gap to the left/rear on the PAW digram is probably you, plus a fair bit of aircraft metalwork too. It might be a bit worse to the rear with a passenger, but overall P3i coverage and range are both good. The slight gap forwards in ADSB is probably due at least in part to your turbo generator (which is pretty impressive) but probably not significant in the overall 'big picture' as anything approaching from the front would have to get into one of the gaps without passing through the visible areas, then stay there to not trigger an alert.

Also good on running your Aircrew with its own GPS - I haven't tried that yet, but always a good idea to have that piece of string in case the belt and braces fail  ;D

It certainly looks like you have all the options covered, and coverage will be even better with the external PAW antennas. I doubt you will need to worry too much about not being future-proofed - you seem to have covered all the angles  :)

Enjoy your flying.

Best Regards

Peter

« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 07:56:36 am by exfirepro »

PeterD

Re: Aerial/Antenna fitting to a Luscombe 8
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2021, 04:44:59 pm »
Hi Peter,
             Thanks, the info and feedback appreciated.    I did an awful lot of reading before going down this route. So i'm glad it has all been worthwhile.

Best wishes,  Peter D