Author Topic: Connect PAW with Powermouse  (Read 1047 times)

Kurt37

Connect PAW with Powermouse
« on: June 29, 2020, 07:00:13 pm »
Hi there,

I am from GER and completely new to the scene. I want to support PAW with multiple stations in the NW of Germany and as a pilot use PAW up in the air.

Since ground coverage is not (yet) the best, I would like to connect PAW with the powermouse (flarmmouse successor). I read the instructions on how to connect to the old flarmmouse.

Questions:
Has anyone connect PAW to powermouse?
What is different to the setup w/ flarmmouse?
Do I still need a splitter or is it a direct connection?
Does it work well in real life?

Thank you very much for your help.

Patrick
Does it work well + can

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 09:44:27 pm »
Btw the powermouse is described in a very good way here:
https://gliding.lxnav.com/products/powermouse/

It has 2 rj45 and a USB socket, with a splitter included.

Is it enough to connect the rj45 with the accessible paw rj45?

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 11:21:44 pm »
Hi Kurt,

I actually wrote the paper on the PilotAware site about integrating FLARMMouse into PilotAware. I have done this with FLARMMouse, FLARM Red Box and PowerFLARM Core. The principle in each case is exactly the same, though the detail varies slightly depending on the device. The only real difference between the 6 pin RJ12 and 8 pin RJ45 connectors is that with the 8-pin type, either Pin 1 or Pin 2 of can be used for ‘Power +’ and either Pin 7 or Pin 8 for ‘Power -‘. With the 6-pin RJ12, only a single pin at each end is used for ‘Power +’ and ‘Power -‘ connection.

As you will have seen from the PowerMouse Manual, one of the RJ45 sockets is normally used for Power Supply (using Pins 1 and 8 or 2 and 7). The other socket is normally used to feed data to a dedicated FLARM display. If you want to retain a FLARM display and connect to PilotAware, you can either use a splitter to feed the Display and the PilotAware from the second socket, or make up your own lead to supply power to the PowerMouse (via pins 1 and 8,) and feed data to your PilotAware via pins 4 and 5 from the same socket, leaving the other socket free for your display. In either case, you need to connect Pin 5 of the socket to the Yellow wire in the FTDI USB cable and Pin 4 of the socket to the Black wire. Either of the above will work fine.

Any problems or further questions, please come back to me.

In any case, please let us know how you get on.

Best Regards

Peter

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2020, 06:51:27 am »
Hi Peter,

I was hoping you would reply, so thank you very much for your explanations. They help a lot.

For clarification: I am planning a setup without a display, I will be using Skydemon connected via WiFi to the PAW. From what I understand that might make it even easier.

So with PAW and Powermouse without a display the procedure would be:

Data Transfer:
Powermouse is plugged in via RJ45 plug, PAW via USB.
Powermouse RJ45 Port 1 is connected to the Pilotaware USB to feed data to the PAW. Cable in use FTDI USB. Pins 4 and 5 of the RJ45 plug are used. The USB cable is plugged into the PAW, and a Rj45 plug is attached to the other side, no splitter , no bounding of cables needed. RJ45 Pin 4 is connected to the black USB wire, RJ45 Pin 5 to the yellow USB wire.

Power supply for Powermouse:
The other port (2) is used with a flarm rj45 power cable using pin 1 and 8 OR 2 and 7.

Is that procedure correct?

Questions:
The PAW RJ45 socket cannot be used as a data feed towards the PAW, only the USB socket is used, as described above?

Can I power the powermouse from the PAW with the free pins on port 1 within the FTDI USB cable? (Pins 1 and 8 or 2 and 7). I would save a cable (in port 2) in the cockpit. If yes: which FTDI wires do I use?

If not:
Does the powermouse power cable come with the powermouse ready made? Do you have a link? Is an Anker powerbank with a USB oder USB-C connection sufficient?
What do I do with the other wires of the FTDI cable that are not in use?
 
With those questions answered and clarified for me I will go ahead with the procedure and share my experience installing PAW and Powermouse with detailed photos.

Kind regards,
Patrick
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 07:50:17 am by Kurt37 »

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2020, 10:08:12 am »
+ without wanting to make things to complicated:

I spoke to LX Nav and asked about the power supply. It has to be 12V, so anything via USB (max 5V) will not be sufficient.
If Pilotaware can power the powermouse, will it be 12V? I personally cant believe that.
How do you otherwise power the powermouse if you dont have a 12V cig lighter in the aircraft?

His recommondation went towards the Powerbat (also Powerflarm In/Out). Advantage 10h of battery. Also built in splitter (so no extra splitter with PAW needed?) and apparently 2x RJ45 (different infos on the net).IF RJ45, it would be same wiring as explained in the 2 posts before, I assume.

Would PAW and FlarmBAT work? Are there any disadvantages known that PowerBat has compared to Powermouse?

Sorry for so many question, I will promise to make a documentary when I have finished my setup + I will make it public.

Kind Regards,
Patrick
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 10:22:50 am by Kurt37 »

PaulSS

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2020, 11:47:41 am »
Hi Patrick,

From reading the Powermouse manual it is true the power supply should be between 8-30V, in other words; using the aircraft's 12V power supply.

Is the aircraft your own, in which you can make a permanent fit or is it your intention to have everything transportable?

If it is your own and you want to fit it permanently then it would be a very simple job to connect to an existing CB/fuse input and then just have an in-line 3A fuse. The ground wire could connect to any ground point/ground bus bar.

As the Raspberry Pi runs on 5V I do not think it will be realistic to run it from the same power supply. That would involve a step-up transformer and that just gets a bit silly.


exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2020, 01:25:38 pm »
Hi again Patrick,

You are correct in your readback for using the PowerMouse. Just be careful to make sure you still have the correct wires in the correct place before crimping them into the RJ45 plug (that's a very common mistake). Also as you aren't using the other wires in the converter cable, take care to individually insulate them from each other as well as from anything outside.

You can't power the PowerMouse (or FlarmBat) from your PilotAware as they both run on a nominal 12 Volts, whereas Pilotaware runs on 5 Volts. Each device should be powered separately.

The PowerMouse definitely includes a power cable (with bare ends but without fuse holder etc). From reading the manual, the FlarmBat certainly includes a charging cable but probably not a 12 volt power cable - you would need to check with your supplier. You can, however, certainly run either device PowerMouse or FlarmBat from an 8 - 30 Volt supply. This is to allow their use in aircraft having a nominal 12 or 24 volt supply. As Paul has said above, the power supply should be independently switched and connected via a suitable fuse or circuit breaker to protect the device and the aircraft's electrical systems.

Unfortunately you can't use the PAW RJ45 connector for Flarm-In as this port is set up for Ethernet, not Flarm data. You MUST use an RS232 Serial to USB converter. We recommend the FTDI-USB-RS232-WE-1800-BT 0.0 converter lead (there is also a longer 5metre version coded FTDI-USB-RS232-WE-5000-BT 0.0 if you need it). These can be obtained from various sources, though we recommend a reputable supplier such as RS or Farnell in the UK as there are a lot of fake copies on some internet sites. RS Stock No. is 687-7828. Also be aware there are lots of sites advertising RS232 TTL level converters - THESE WILL NOT WORK.
 
All that said, the FlarmBat is certainly an alternative to the PowerMouse - if you feel you would benefit from it's inbuilt display and self contained battery, though those of course make it more expensive. If you aren't bothered about the cost and have space to mount it on top of your coaming (dashboard), it would certainly be worth considering. You can then as you suggest use one RJ45 Port for your Power Lead and the other for the RJ45 RS232 to USB Converter Cable to connect to your PilotAware.

Let us know what you decide.

Best Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 07:37:45 pm by exfirepro »

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2020, 04:16:28 pm »
First of all I am quite happy, that I do not need a splitter, since keeping everything compact is key for me.

I think I will go for the Flarmbat. 1 cable less in the cockpit (battery powered).

Adsb in is within the PAW so I would not need that on the Flarmbat, right?

Can the flarmbat be next/ near to the PAW on the dashboard or do they interfere with each other?

Patrick
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 05:31:41 pm by Kurt37 »

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2020, 07:34:57 pm »
Hi Patrick,

I should have asked earlier, What sort of aircraft are we talking about?

OK on going for the FlarmBat - that’s a good choice. They are very popular and if you need to you can add a charging lead powered from the plane later.

No, you won’t need the ADSB option as PAW does that for you really well - in fact unless you are flying a glider competitively, you don’t need the IGC or ENL either and can go for the cheapest FlarmBat version. The 2nd FLARM antenna option (which extends reception below your aircraft so can be useful especially in a metal-bodied aircraft) can I’m pretty sure be added later as it is (I think) primarily a licence key to release the function in software plus a second (preferably external) antenna. Again, check this with your supplier - fairly expensive though so most don’t seem to bother.

It is always best to keep the units reasonably far apart if you can, to reduce any potential for PAW Tx (on 869.5 MHz) to de-sensitise the FLARM Rx (on 868 MHz) - though in practice this isn’t ‘critical’ as the PAW only transmits in short bursts. It’s also always best to maintain a bit of space between the two units’ (internal) GPS antennas if you can do so. In practice, I run my FlarmMouse and Rosetta about 30cm from each other in my Flexwing with no problems.

Best Regards

Peter

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2020, 10:46:29 pm »
I fly C172, Aquila 210 and a ultralight dynamic WT9. So all fixed wing, closed cockpits.

The C172 obviously being a full metal 4 seater AC, the others 2 seater GFK AC.

Since I have all choices yet to make: which antennas would you recommend for the Flarmbat?

Kind regards,
Patrick


« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 10:07:56 am by Kurt37 »

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2020, 06:44:24 pm »
Just to confirm I am planning to use the rosetta. I read it has two spare USB ports internally and I would have run the cable out somehow. Which port to use to feed information from flarm? And does it need configuring?
Brief, quick answer appreciate. I am planning to purchase everything tomorrow.

Re antennas: superfant antennas are the best for metal AC, attached via cables, not directly to the device.

Kind regards
Patrick
« Last Edit: July 05, 2020, 08:56:50 pm by Kurt37 »

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2020, 09:17:58 pm »
Patrick,

Put the FTDI USB in the bottom port in the ‘middle’ row, below the GPS. If you do this, the plastic strain relief slots onto the bottom part of the case and holds the cable in place. You need to file out the cover so it still slides back on over the strain relief. This port is USB Port 2. Configure USB Port 2 to ‘Flarm-IN’ and 19,200 Baud on Rosetta Configure the rest as specified in the FlarmMouse Instructions which I believe you already have.

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 08:02:37 am by exfirepro »

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2020, 05:06:59 am »
Thanks Peter, you have been very helpful in the planning process.

One more thing I would like to have clarified:

Which GPS is used (PAW or Flarmbat)? Which GPS should I use and how do I control the GPS use (PAW/Flarmbat/Skydemon)

Does the Rosetta come with an external GPS that I can just velcro on the dash?

+ The Baud rate setting in the Flarmbat also have to be 19.200, I guess? Anything else I need to set up in the Flarmbat config file?

Kind regards
Patrick
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 05:31:30 am by Kurt37 »

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2020, 06:07:59 am »
Hi again Patrick,

The standard Rosetta GPS is a USB dongle - mounted internally inside the end of the case. Rosetta is designed to use its own GPS by default, or an approved external GPS if one is directly connected in place of the internal one. Rosetta will automatically supply GPS position data to SkyDemon once your tablet or phone is connected to the PilotAware WiFi Hotspot and you select ‘Go Flying - Use PilotAware’.

SkyDemon cannot be configured to run on tablet internal GPS and accept external traffic data, so has to use the traffic system GPS.

Rosetta won’t supply GPS to the Flarmbat, which has its own internal GPS. During early integration testing, we tried to use GPS data from the FlarmMouse internal GPS to supply PAW but found this to be unreliable, (probably due to a much smaller antenna), though it is perfectly capable of operating the FlarmMouse (or Flarmbat) on its own.

The Rosetta internal GPS can be resited, onto the coaming for example, by using a suitable USB extension cable, though you may want to enclose the GPS in a small plastic box for protection. Be careful to position it ‘right side up’ so that the circuit board doesn’t screen the ceramic antenna. (The same of course applies when mounting Rosetta with the antenna inside.) Alternatively, you can buy an external GPS from online sites such as Amazon - search for vk162

Regards

Peter

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2020, 12:55:30 pm »
Okay. The Rosetta just arrived. I tried in the Cessna under the top shield of the instrument panel (so it's not blocking the view as if it were on the coaming). I will update this with some pictures later. I was rather worried that under the panel the GPS wouldn't work but I'm suprise even without direct line of site it still has 8 satellites and works reliable.

What is the setting to use the flarms GPS if I need to?