Author Topic: Connect PAW with Powermouse  (Read 11192 times)

Alanr

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2020, 08:35:56 am »
Thanks for the quick reply Peter.
That is a disappointment that a V3+ or simiar LED just wouldn't work with Rosetta. Having a dedicated traffic display in the small size format of these small LED display units is what appeals. I don't want Traffic and Nav mixed up in on an EFB it creates just too much screen clutter.
Also the Aircrew unit whilst a brilliant initiative it presently is just too large for my panel, so perhaps I will just have a look again at the Pilotaware Radar option.

Thanks again,

Alan.

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2020, 09:11:55 am »
Good Morning Patrick,

Thanks for the update. Positive news on your FLARM Range and use of the FlarmBat GPS to drive the whole system.

We need to get our heads round what is causing the problem with SkyDemon. I need to give that some more thought and maybe try a few things.

Re the Mode S Traffic - Pure Mode S transmits no position directly, just altitude and Hex ID, so can’t be shown as an aircraft at a specific position by SD (or any other display). Instead it shows initially on SD as a Green ‘Warning Ring’ around your aircraft. The ring should then get smaller and change Green -Orange - Red if the aircraft continues to get closer to you. For Mode S the Reg and Relative Altitude (+/- to your own) will be displayed at the ‘12 o’clock’ position on the ring. For Mode C ( no Hex) this shows as Relative Altitude + ‘C’. These rings are controlled by the strength of the received Mode C or S signal. The Rosetta Mode C/S ‘Range’ setting is actually a sensitivity control, which varies the strength of signal needed to trigger each ring - hence closer for Short - much farther away for Long.

The actual distance at which each ring is triggered depends on the transponder (GA around 100Watts - Commercial up to 500 Watts) and on your receiver antenna setup, so we can’t give a specific distance. The system was set predominantly for GA, so on Medium Range the first (Green) Warning ‘should’ be received at somewhere between 3 and 5 miles. If that’s too far out, fly on Short Range. Ultra-Short is only for use when regularly operating from or very close to a commercial airfield. Long Range is only used in very low traffic areas or for testing.

In the case of the aircraft you describe, when you say the same traffic appeared as Mode S Traffic with their hex code - do you mean in the PilotAware Traffic Table or on Screen in SD?

Let me think more about the SD and Mode S issues and I’ll get back to you later.

Best Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 02:33:27 pm by exfirepro »

PaulRuskin

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2020, 11:31:55 am »
Following this thread I have found very interesting from the use of a Flarm display viewpoint and the connection of Rosetta to FlarmBat.
What I would like to know though has anyone tried connecting via RS232 Rosetta to a separate Flarm V3+display or the LX equivalent small display?
I suppose the question is, is the Rosetta protocol output compatible with the V3+?....this thread has suggested it just might be?

I've had a PilotAware integrated with an LX9070 moving map, Flarmview 57 traffic display and V3 alarm for a couple of years.  The Flarm output from the 9070 goes to the PilotAware and to the V3.  The PilotAware adds PAW and ADSB traffic which is then displayed on the Flarmview (a small traffic screen), and also sent back to the 9070 to be displayed on the moving map.  I'm using RS232-USB convertors on both input and output of the PAW.  I would expect that all the traffic would be displayed on Skydemon if I had one connected to the PilotAware (it's a glider, so I don't).

I put the V3 on the output of the Flarm (not the PilotAware) for two reasons. 

Firstly, there are two types of NMEA traffic sentences in the Flarm spec.  One is a traffic message, and the other is an alarm message (the highest priority piece of traffic which is likely to hit you).  Flarm produces both types of message, PAW only the first - it leaves it up to the receiving instrument (such as SkyDemon) to make the assessment of whether the traffic is a threat.  The V3 displays only alarm messages, so there's no point in attaching it to the PAW output.  The Flarmview however, displays the traffic, so it works (though won't alarm for ADSB or PAW traffic sent by the PAW).  However, I would expect a connected SkyDemon display to alarm on either. 

The second reason is that I want to see Flarm alarms even if the PAW isn't working for some reason (that doesn't seem to happen, but I'm being cautious).

Paul



exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2020, 01:12:47 pm »
Hi Paul,

Thanks for that. Likewise, I run my LXNav FLARM display in parallel with the feed to PilotAware, so I get FLARM warnings straight from my FlarmMouse. I knew there was a reason why the output from PilotAware wouldn’t drive the V3 (or similar) displays properly, but couldn’t recollect earlier exactly what it was.

Nice to hear from you BTW - your presence has been missed.

Best Regards

Peter

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2020, 12:45:58 am »
Patrick,

I have been giving considerable thought to the issue of traffic not displaying properly on SD when showing on the PAW Radar/ Traffic Screens. We need to evaluate this logically.

So, please confirm the following:-

Your tablet is connected to the (correct) PilotAware WiFi Hotspot.

You have confirmed the connection by bringing up the PilotAware Home Screen on your tablet browser via 192.168.1.1.

You are seeing the PAW Home Screen and the other screens - including traffic on the Traffic Screen and PAW Radar Screen.

You have the ‘Device Connect Setting’ in PilotAware Configure set to PilotAware UDP and have saved that setting by clicking the ‘Save’ button at the bottom of that screen and checking it has been saved.

You have set ‘Third Party Devices’ in SkyDemon/Setup/Third Party Devices to PilotAware UDP ONLY (for the purpose of this exercise de-select all other options).

You then select ‘Go Flying - Use PilotAware’ in SkyDemon.

Is this all correct?

Can you see any evidence of any SkyDemon Disconnects? (Either as messages on screen or as ‘gaps’ or red ‘dots’ in the SkyDemon/Logs/Playback on SkyDemon?

Can you provide any screenshots to show the settings / issues / visible traffic please.

Screenshots of your PAW Home, Configure and Traffic screens - preferably after the unit has been running for a while and is showing traffic - would also be useful for analysis / confirmation.

If this still doesn’t provide the answer, we will have to disconnect the cable between your FlarmBat and Rosetta (and reinstall the Rosetta GPS) to see if that solves the problem, but let’s get the screenshots and evaluate them first.

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 06:48:26 am by exfirepro »

Admin

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2020, 07:28:46 am »
Hi patrick
Please post a full/readable copy of your configure page

By default SD will only show traffic at +/-6000ft, could the traffic not displayed in SD be at higher altitudes?
Thx
Lee

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2020, 07:46:38 am »
Lee,

In a separate post on the SD Forum, Patrick has confirmed he has SD 'Show within vertically' set to +/- 50,000ft - as I previously advised him to do so for testing. I've been over all the usual options, but waiting for the screenshots after final installation / setup. The only thing I haven't investigated yet is Patrick's comment a few posts back...

[I am using] Flarm in 19200 baud, (UDP with pilotaware selection). Flarm out on the Flarmbat 19200 baud. Flarmprotocol version I am using 4, what is yours Peter? (Other values are default, 5,6,7)

I don't remember ever changing 'protocols' in my FlarmMouse setup and it's in the plane so not to hand to check. I wondered if Patrick is talking about the Flarm Firmware Version, but from my recent update file I know we are already on to Version 7.00 and I would have thought his new FlarmBat would have been supplied with at least Version 6.60 or 6.63.

Edit: Can’t see how that would affect transmission of data already showing on PAW Radar to SkyDemon on the same tablet (iPad Mini 5) though.

The only other issue I can think of is a proximity issue of some sort - see Patrick's Pics.

Regards

Peter
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 08:23:12 am by exfirepro »

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2020, 09:06:40 am »
Lee,

OK, I have downloaded the latest 'PowerFlarm Configuration Tool' from the LXNav Website and now see what Patrick is talking about - it is the protocol used to configure the ports for transfer of data to the various external Flarm Displays. The default (described as 'e.g. for Garmin') and options '4', '6' or '7', though with no guidance or explanation as to which should be used when.

I have also had a look at my 'Classic Flarm Configuration Tool' which gives these options as '4/5', '6', '7' or '8' though with no recommendation or explanation and I can't remember what I set mine to. I will check later if I can find my 'spare' FlarmMouse, otherwise it will have to wait until I get to the plane (possibly tomorrow).

Off to re-read the FlarmBat Manual to see if that helps.

Regards

Peter


Admin

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2020, 11:36:21 am »
Hi Patrick

Can you provide a copy of the track file which was not displaying traffic on SkyDemon ?
You can also try loading it here
https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/

Thx
Lee

exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2020, 09:17:26 pm »
Lee / Patrick,

I've just been reading the FlarmBat Manual - downloaded from the LXNav website - to see if it throws any light on the problem.

Section 4.6 - on page 15 of the English version, indicates that Bluetooth is ‘permanently on’ on the FlarmBat and can’t be configured or turned off.

SkyDemon isn’t configured to use Bluetooth for traffic and specifically prohibits the use of Bluetooth Devices (such as GPS) if connected to a Traffic Source via WiFi.

If the iPad Bluetooth has been deliberately (or inadvertently) paired to the FlarmBat at any point it will presumably try to reconnect automatically every time it sees the source. Could this be the issue.

Patrick - have you ever connected to the unit's Bluetooth with your iPad? I would probably have tried it - if only just to see what happens.

The ‘acid test’ would be to make sure that Bluetooth is turned ‘Off’ on the iPad for the next test flight.

Edit - mainly FAO Lee: Forgot to mention - there is also a 'Warning' just beneath the LXNav PowerFlarm Configuration Diagram on page 27, which states:-        'For Bluetooth to operate properly, bound rate [presumably should read 'baud rate'] of the port must be set to 19200bps. If you changed bound rate for any purpose (ex.updating) make sure you set it back to 19200 if you want to use Bluetooth on that port.

This implies that Bluetooth is also automatically active on the RJ45 ports (providing baud rate is set to 19200). Could this be having an effect on data transmission? Probably less likely than direct transmission to the iPad, but outside my knowledge zone!

To answer Patrick's earlier question about Port Data Protocols,
Section 8.2, - from page 27, covers Configuration of the two RJ45 Data Ports (which can be configured independently). Unfortunately, the only advice it gives regarding choosing the appropriate Data Protocol (in very small print on page 29, - which actually relates to using the FlarmTool) - is that...

[Protocol] ‘Version 4 is typically supported by all displays*. Select a higher version if the display supports it to have access to all functions’,

... with the additional advice for Port 1 ‘Select ‘Version 3’ if Data sentences is configured as Garmin TIS.

* In our application, Rosetta would be deemed to be a 'display'.

Nothing visible in my own FlarmMouse Config files to help here, (I checked both units), so my advice would be to set the port in use for the RS232 to USB to ‘Version 4’ initially, - which Patrick seems to have already done - then, if thought necessary, progressively try the higher protocol versions and assess any change (improvement) in data transfer and go back one stage, if no further improvement is noticed.

The same section of the Manual also gives the following advice on Baud Rates...

Baud Rate (bit rate). Must match setting in attached display/equipment. Select at least 19,200 for advanced equipment. - or would you suggest going higher Lee?

Nothing else found in the Manual that appears relevant to the issues we are seeing.

Regards

Peter

p.s. still want to see the screenshots and track files Patrick.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 07:15:51 am by exfirepro »

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2020, 06:54:11 am »
Hi Peter,

systematical approach:

Your tablet is connected to the (correct) PilotAware WiFi Hotspot.
You have confirmed the connection by bringing up the PilotAware Home Screen on your tablet browser via 192.168.1.1.
You are seeing the PAW Home Screen and the other screens - including traffic on the Traffic Screen and PAW Radar Screen.
affirm

You have the ‘Device Connect Setting’ in PilotAware Configure set to PilotAware UDP and have saved that setting by clicking the ‘Save’ button at the bottom of that screen and checking it has been saved.
affirm

You have set ‘Third Party Devices’ in SkyDemon/Setup/Third Party Devices to PilotAware UDP ONLY (for the purpose of this exercise de-select all other options).
affirm, only PAW set, no UDP only option however visible

You then select ‘Go Flying - Use PilotAware’ in SkyDemon.
Is this all correct?
yes

Can you see any evidence of any SkyDemon Disconnects? (Either as messages on screen or as ‘gaps’ or red ‘dots’ in the SkyDemon/Logs/Playback on SkyDemon?
negativ, no disconnects
Can you provide any screenshots to show the settings / issues / visible traffic please.

If the iPad Bluetooth has been deliberately (or inadvertently) paired to the FlarmBat at any point it will presumably try to reconnect automatically every time it sees the source. Could this be the issue.
Patrick?
Bluetooth was not turned off as far as I can remember, I will do next time. Reg. Baud rates it is at 19200 waiting for Lee's repsonse to go higher on that.

Flarm Protocol Versions:
I will increase the versions step by step and monitor results



« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 07:32:04 am by Kurt37 »

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2020, 07:09:05 am »
here are screenshots from PAW Config and SD Config Menü. (and yes SD is set to +-50000ft, Bearingless targets on, I dont see any other setting possibilities in SD tbh).

https://ibb.co/x5Y3M88
https://ibb.co/DRV73kG
https://ibb.co/HNfzjd0





exfirepro

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2020, 07:35:02 am »
Morning Patrick,

Thanks for the update.

Please note - that while you would have been typing, I slightly amended my earlier post to add some additional info (mainly for Lee) after re-reading the FlarmBat Manual. The main issues, however, are the same.

Everything looks OK in your screenshots, except that I would reset 'Vertical Display Range' for 'Positional Contacts Settings' in PAW Configure to 'Display All' as this then passes all traffic to SkyDemon and lets the SkyDemon filters determine what is shown.

You are correct there is no 'UDP only' option - my bad punctuation - sorry. You have done what I meant you to!

I discussed your problem with Lee yesterday, which was why he asked for the track file. This is essential to let him see exactly what traffic was being passed to Rosetta and what was passed on to SkyDemon. At my request, Lee also did a search for your Hex ID on the network (he has full network access), but as with my search, with 'no result'. He will speak to our Network experts...

Best Regards

Peter

Admin

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2020, 07:38:49 am »
Hi Patrick
Under Positional Contacts Settings
You have selected +/-4000ft

I think this is your issue, an aircraft at 5000ft above you will NOT be sent to Sky Demon
What settings do you have in your RADAR screen?

Thx
Lee

Kurt37

Re: Connect PAW with Powermouse
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2020, 08:08:47 am »
Hi Peter/Lee,

@Peter: I will reset the vertical filter to unlimited.

@Lee:
correct I have set that back to 4000ft, but the traffic that was at all times visible in the PAW Radar was within that range (there were only 400ft between us).
PAW shows all the traffic I want in a very reliable way, so i assume it has nothing to do with the PAW settings/filter. It is more the Interface between PAW and SD I guess.
Hi Patrick
Under Positional Contacts Settings
You have selected +/-4000ft

I think this is your issue, an aircraft at 5000ft above you will NOT be sent to Sky Demon
What settings do you have in your RADAR screen?

Thx
Lee

@Lee: regarding track file: you mean the file from the Rosetta, that is saved on the MicroSD Card? If so I need to get back home first to upload that file. Or do you mean the SD logfile?

« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 08:12:16 am by Kurt37 »