Author Topic: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -  (Read 8274 times)

iain

Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« on: January 12, 2020, 01:07:42 pm »
Map of PilotAware / 360Radar contributors -

https://radar.lowflyingwales.co.uk/pilotaware-contributors

« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 06:57:01 pm by iain »

Ian Melville

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar contributors -
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2020, 02:34:09 pm »
Thanks Iain,
I notice that many are offline?. PWThame, one of my stations is up and running, yet shown offline. Last seen 4/11/2019. I have  Virtual Radar running fine at home and the station is showing MLAT connected.

Where does this Offline/Online status come from as it is giving the impression that the system is a bit iffy.

Cheers
Ian

iain

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar contributors -
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2020, 03:18:19 pm »
The red pins indicate that they are not feeding into the 360Radar server as they don't have a second USB SDR and 1090Mhz antenna

The pins are only approximate location to hide the exact position

The map is from 360Radar - Philip Lee
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 03:32:18 pm by iain »

Ian Melville

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2020, 10:55:23 pm »
Thanks Iain, Looks like I need to speak to Phillip as PWThame does have a second SDR. And as as far as I know is feeding into 360Radar?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 10:57:54 pm by Ian Melville »

mariko

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2020, 10:58:58 am »
PWMI02 and PWmi02 were online for a couple of hours just for some tests and configurations (and, obviously, mistakes ::) ). Indeed, it is the same harware in the same location, that is not the final place where te station will be. The reported position is actually uncorrect and refer to the efinitive istallation. In the next days I will proceed to make other tests. Do I have to set a different name and set the actual location?
Ciao
  Mariko

exfirepro

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2020, 01:50:19 pm »
Hi mariko,

I would suggest NOT changing the name as that will just create yet another red marker. Also 360Radar deliberately positions the site markers away from the actual site position to stop anyone easily locating your site - perhaps with criminal intentions.

Best to just carry on with your tests and we can get Phil Lee to sort things out as/when you get your station permanently installed.

Best Regards

Peter

Admin

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2020, 02:11:04 pm »
Hi Mariko,

Remember to not provide the PW, so either
MI02
mi02

both acceptable
thx
Lee

Kurt37

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2020, 08:48:30 pm »
All stations in Germany or in fact all in Continental Europe are showing red / offline. Is that really true? I thought Germany had approx 20 running ognr stations? +How many OGN R stations do I/the traffic need to see to receive mlat info on my Rosetta? (I am reading between 2 and 5 stations)

 I'm asking because I'm planning to install stations here in Germany.

Kind regards,
Patrick
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 08:36:47 am by Kurt37 »

Pidea

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2020, 09:00:36 am »
The map located here https://radar.lowflyingwales.co.uk/pilotaware-contributors/ is an internal tool that we use to keep an eye on the PilotAware groundstations that connect to 360Radar to either contribute to our MLAT coverage or pull from it.  It was primarily put together to show where it was likely that an aircraft would pick up transmissions from a PAW groundstation.  It was based on code used to create other maps and as a result also happens to show the status of any receiver whose name starts with PW.

On the map, blue pins are PAW ground stations contributing to MLAT positions because they have a second 1090 MHz SDR whilst red ones are either offline OR are simply pulling MLAT positions and are not contributing to them OR are sending data to our European server.

Receivers that show as red can do so for several reasons - often users will name a station whilst setting it up and then will rename it again.  A good example is PWPWThame which was correctly renamed to PWThame in November 2019.  PWThame has uploaded recently but was last seen yesterday (July 19th) as indicated by the Last Seen time.  PWPWThame last uploaded, according to the Last Seen time, back in November 2019 presumably when it was correctly renamed.  With nearly 1,200 360Radar contributors there's a fair amount of churn where users install a system and then reinstall it at some point later choosing a different name or spelling it differently.

In an ideal world the system would track these automatically but it doesn't and I then end up having to manually investigate why a station appears to be offline.  I am currently in the process of cleaning the database of receiver names so that an automated email alert can be sent when a receiver hasn't uploaded for a period of time.  This will contain the receiver name, latitude, longitude and altitude so that should the user need to re-install they can use the same values.

The Last Seen time is based on when the receiver last contributed to an MLAT calculation and to work that out we need access to the relevant server log files.  Since this is an internal tool that was quickly thrown together for a specific purpose it doesn't access the data from our European server which is why all European stations are showing in red so in the case of European PAW ground stations this map can be ignored.

The Last Seen time will vary according to the receiver location so those receivers in more remote areas where there is less Mode S traffic may have Last Seen time several hours old.  Since the demise of regional airline FlyBe (who had quite a large Mode S equipped fleet) the 360Radar network spends most of its time tracking mostly GA and military Mode S aircraft so once GA aircraft stop flying most groundstations will not contribute to an MLAT position until either a military aircraft flies over or another Mode S aircraft comes into view.

So does that mean that this map is useless ? No but it could be better.

The map suggests that PWThame last uploaded yesterday morning (July 19th at 09:22) indicating that there probably is a problem with that receiver as there were plenty of Mode S aircraft around to MLAT yesterday but with lots of dead receivers on the page it's misleading which is why I'm working on an email alerting system to notify that PAW groundstation owners that their receiver is down.

exfirepro

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2020, 09:48:57 am »
Thanks Phil,

That is a far more comprehensive explanation than I was expecting, but certainly makes the situation crystal clear.

IIRC the owner of PWThame (Ian M) did report some issues recently, but I’m sure he will be checking his setup shortly ( ??? )

Best Regards

Peter

Kurt37

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2020, 10:03:46 am »
thanks a lot for that comprehensive answer.

So is there a Map for PAW/OGNR stations in Europe? Maybe over the OGN range site?

And how many OGN R are needed for MLAT to be provided to the rosetta?

Pidea

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2020, 10:26:46 am »
There isn't a specific map for European receivers as yet.  Although the locations shown on the map above are correct (give or take a deliberate error for privacy) so you know the approximate locations.  From memory, all of the European ones on the map are helping to MLAT aircraft.

To successfully MLAT an aircraft we need it to be seen by at least 4 receivers at the same time.  In flat areas this is easier than in hilly areas.  The height of the aircraft also makes a difference.  The higher it is, the more chance of it being seen by multiple receivers.

Kurt37

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2020, 11:38:46 am »
Ok great. Like I said I am planning 4-5 station in the NW part of Germany. Between the north coast (city of Emden) and Munster osnabruck airport.

That route is 75 percent of my personal flying.

Stations would be in leer Papenburg (edwf), Meppen, Münster Osnabrück (eddg) and city of haren and maybe city of Georgsmarienhütte.

I was hoping full mlat coverage in 2000-3000ft between eddg and the north coast. The land is completely flat here, the antennas would be in 10-15m.

What do you think about the mlat coverage?


Pidea

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2020, 11:44:55 am »
Didn't we email back and forth about this ?  Pretty sure that I sent you some maps etc having worked out the likely coverage based on your new proposed receivers plus the existing ones in the area.

Kurt37

Re: Map of PilotAware / 360Radar ground stations -
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2020, 09:14:28 pm »
Yes we have, sorry for any confusion.

I was monitoring 360 radar today in the NW of Germany (around the city of Lingen) and was quite amazed by the result. It mlated traffic down to 1800ft realiably. Has there been new feeders or other updates in those area in the recent past?

And just to confirm: if an aircraft is successfully mlated on the 360 radar screen does that mean that I will see this same target as a bearing target in my Rosetta equipped aircraft when in range of an OGN-R?

Kind regards,

Patrick