Author Topic: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW  (Read 10386 times)

CliveJ

Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« on: August 12, 2019, 12:30:59 am »
OK, this might not be a PAW problem but I can see there's lots of savvy folk on here so maybe you can help with my problem.
I have a PAW and have been using it successfully for a few years. A few days ago I updated it and it's running ok with the update.
The issue I have is it can't see my aircraft's transponder on the PAW, I know it's not supposed to. But even set to another Hex and Reg the PAW can't see the TXP on the traffic list when reading via the browser on 192.168.1.1. It did once when I tried a test on the ground 3 months ago but it didn't show the ADSB word you need to have a screenshot of to prove it's working. I gave up that day scratched my head. I have a Filser with a Garmin feeding the position signal via RS232, Filser suggested I tied the ground of the Garmin and Filser together to give the RS232 a good reference so I did this but no difference. That said the ADSB was showing on FR24 right from the first time I flew with it hooked up. After doing the update the other day to the latest PAW update I thought I'd try again. All regular traffic is there of course.
I need to see it so I can confirm the TXP is transmitting ADSB so I can get the sign of for it from the LAA.
The Garmin signal also feeds the autopilot and that shows 'GPS Good" shortly after the GPS gets a fix.
If I have a look at myself on FR24 while flying I can see the plane's reg and the position is good and the feed is shown as ADSB.
So TXP works, is showing as transmitting ADSB, is recognised by every agency I've talked to in past few years (with and without ADSB feed connected), only thing is it won't show up on PAW when I reset the ID etc away from my aircrafts code(s) or when they are set.
Please ask any questions if I haven't explained myself. There is no 'flight' switch on the TXP.
BTW, today I took the PAW out of the aircraft and parked 300m away and tried to see the plane's TXP when it was parked up with 7000' Mode ACS squarking and a good GPS signal shown on the GPS and the autopilot.
All this is under testing as neither the ADSB hook up is approved yet and neither is the Autopilot, I want to bundle the paperwork and get it all signed off together.
Anything I've missed, ideas appreciated?
Regards, Clive

Ian Melville

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 06:51:09 am »
After you change the hex code away from the correct one, do you click ‘Save’. Unless you do he change will not kick in.

exfirepro

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 10:39:19 am »
Hi Clive,

I have noticed this myself recently and for some time now (‘Ownship’ not showing in the PAW traffic table - even when the Hex ID is set to something other than that in the transponder). I suspect this may be a casualty (collateral damage) resulting from the technical improvements incorporated to make Mode C detection more ‘intelligent’. (IIRC it determines that the strongest Mode C (altitude) response being received must be ‘Ownship’ so filters it out). I may of course be completely wrong - Lee would have to confirm. Unfortunately I can’t fly at the moment but will try some tests to see if I can pin this down.

IIRC the LAA procedure requires the supporting screenshot to be from a separate PilotAware located some distance from the unit on test (and preferably not running the Mode C S Filter) which should get round this problem - have you tried that? I will try to do so myself when next at the airfield.

@Lee - Comments please....

Best Regards

Peter

CliveJ

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 11:00:59 am »
Ian, I thought I might be doing that wrong so changed it saved it closed the browser. Opened a new one, logged onto the unit, went to the Config page and the new numbers/code are there.
Switched on the Mode C/S and still nothing.
I know that works as flew with my son in his plane and the warning came up with his reg.

Now that gives me an idea, I'll drag his plane out and try the same test as I've been doing with mine.
Also I'll get him on the ground with the PAW and go flying in my plane.

Peter, your idea would explain it.....
The reason why I took the PAW out the plane and put it in my van and drove 300m away as I feared there was some high power signal filter on the PAW. I was still quite close relatively but I have seen alaerts when I'm in formation with other planes running C/S that said they were intermittent.

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas, will update any progress, Regards, Clive

Admin

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 01:35:25 pm »
This is unrelated to the Mode-C work, and in fact it is very unlikely that your transponder is interrogated on the ground

Do you know if the transponder has a ground mode setting, and if it does, is it enabled ?

Thx
Lee

SGS66

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 04:25:22 pm »
Hi Clive,

Not sure where you are but some airfields like Goodwood are carrying out ADS-B trials. You could fly near one and ask them to confirm (maybe by screenshot) that they can see you with their ADS-B only kit.  I imagine they will be keen to help if they are like Goodwood. Why not visit Goodwood it's a great airfield, speaking as one who is not even based there.

Phil

CliveJ

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 06:54:17 pm »
Another update:
So, set the PAW up in the van again, my son monitoring and on the radio, it's reading 40 aircraft or so, a few local helicopters going offshore so all is good.
Nothing from my aircraft, on the ground, took off flew about 6 or 7 miles away nothing at any point picked up.
Spoke to Norwich, C and S being received, took a selfie of myself on FR24 with ADSB as the source.
So, landed, son goes flying and nothing from him, notb on the ground or flying overhead, all the rest being reported as before.
Thanks for the suggestion about the trial, I'm up in Norfolk so a bit of hike, been to GW lots of times over the years and agree, great airfield.

Now, to make sure the PAW was not set to my plane's details I set it to my sons plane, so now it has been set to my plane and my sons plane and now it doesn't see either of them......what ever the configuration says, are we seeing something in common here?
I'm thinking I download the new program to the SD card again so it's raw and empty and then see if it's picking up my plane?
Is the program written in such a way it's ignoring all previously 'configured' aircrafts details?

Just a thought, thanks again for the suggestions, Regards, Clive

Admin

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 08:17:40 pm »
Hi Clive

This is very odd, can you share the picture you took of ADS-B being received on FR24
And so we are all in agreement, the source of FR24 was definitely ADS-B and not MLAT ?
**edit** just read your earlier post confirming that it was definitely ADS-B

Can you share the track file from PilotAware from your flight ?

to answer your question, regarding what is ignored, it is simply he ICAO code which is entered on the configure page

Thx
Lee
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 08:19:42 pm by Admin »

SGS66

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 08:29:38 pm »
Hi Clive,
North Weald Airfield is the nearest ADS-B trial as per Airspace for All
Phil

CliveJ

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2019, 07:32:12 am »
The PAW was on the ground so there's no track log. The two planes were started up in front of it and flown above it.

Think it's worth reloading the files to a newly formatted card?
Is the ICAO kept in a place where that would be cleared by doing this?

Thanks, Clive

exfirepro

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2019, 09:48:56 am »
Hi Clive,

Running the PAW on the ground will still create a track file. If you are going to Overwrite the card, it would be worth downloading any track files off it first in case Lee needs them to track down what is going on. This can be easily achieved by connecting to your PAW via WiFi from a laptop, tablet, etc and doing a direct download from the ‘Tracks’ tab, or by using a USB stick inserted in a spare USB slot on the PAW.

Loading a new image onto a new or Full Overwrite reformatted card will remove ALL data from the PAW.

Regards

Peter

CliveJ

Re: Track File
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2019, 10:46:42 am »
Sent to support at PAW
Going to reload everything shortly
Ta, CJ

mariko

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2019, 02:11:03 pm »
It appears to be a MLAT position fixing for FR24.
Ciao
  Mariko

exfirepro

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2019, 03:06:07 pm »
It appears to be a MLAT position fixing for FR24.

Hi Mariko,

How do you determine that? I’m not an expert on FR24, but have just run Clive’s flight from 12th August on FR24 replay (silver member) but the replay gives no indication of whether the track is ADSB or MLAT.

Clive,

Re-Reading your OP, you say you have been using your PAW successfully for “a few years”. I presume from this that it is an early ‘PilotAware Classic’ unit, rather than a Rosetta. Is this correct?

I am starting to think there may be a problem with your PAW’s 1090MHz Receiver, - but you say you are still receiving other local aircraft and I can’t work out why a PAW set up outside your Aircraft would see other local aircraft but not see your own or your son’s aircraft - unless you had the ‘Ownship’ ICAO Hex ID for each individual aircraft set in PAW during each of the tests.

When you set things up again, please set the Hex ID to the default (last 6 digits of the PAW WiFi MAC Address) and set all the PAW filters (both vertical and horizontal) to as wide as possible, then either rerun your flight tests, or boot the PAW up and leave it running for a while and post some screenshots of the Traffic Screen, so we can see what it is actually receiving.

Screenshots of the Home, Configure and Traffic Pages plus the track file should help us track down what is going on here. Also, it appears we still haven’t seen the ‘live’ FR24 shot you say you took to show that your setup is definitely transmitting ADSB.

Regards

Peter

mariko

Re: Just fishing for ideas....ADSB out not being read by PAW
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2019, 02:31:15 am »
Quote
Hi Mariko,

How do you determine that?

He sees many ADSB with is PAW
He dont sees his own trasponder on PAW
His trasponder is tracked by FR24

If his trasponder is a Trasponder S tracked via MLAT it is exactly what I suppose it has to appen
For this reason I wrote "it appears to be" that, in italian, is like "I suppose, I conjecture". Sorry for my bad english.
Ciao
  Mariko