SkyDemon loss of connection (SOLVED)

[PhilPassmore]

Well here is my current update. I still seemed to be experiencing issues, whereby PAW and SD would quite happily communicate for a significant time, then I would experience problems. From the messages that SD is putting up, it is looking like it is losing the GPS, and so therefore disconnects. Initially, it holds onto the wifi connection which is still present, but eventually because no GPS data is being received, it gives up completely. Yesterday I drove for about 3 hours with PAW on the dash of the car, with a good view of the sky, and it worked fine, up until about the third hour, when the GPS problem came up again. I didn't try to reconnect at this point, so left things till I got home. When home, I was getting no GPS data at all, with a problem showing up when scanning the Home IP address from a second device (sorry, can't remember what it said, it was getting late) but the message on SD said that it had zero satellites, and the green light on the GPS module wasn't coming on. Again wifi was all present and correct. Just as an experiment, I moved the GPS across to the adjacent USB port, and it all sprang back into life, and slightly more oddly, worked again on the original GPS port when I changed back to it. I was giving it loads of time to initialise the GPS each time. I am currently bench running everything, with the GPS plugged into the second USB port to see if my original  problem duplicates after a period of time.

[exfirepro]

Hi Phil,

The PilotAware Team are at Popham this weekend (well most of us are anyway).

Intermittent / infrequent disconnects can be a real pain to diagnose, as these can be due to internal problems (with either PAW or the Nav System) or due to ‘external’ issues, such as the power supply, or even to external devices such as phones or tablets desperately trying to re-establish ‘full’ Open Internet Acccess via for example a shared Bluetooth or WiFi hotspot - which could well be on another device in the aircraft. This can occur for the strangest reasons. If the problem recurs, it is essential to try to take a screengrab of any messages and also the PAW Home and Logging Pages and post them on here to help us determine what is going on. A shot of the Configure Screen can also be helpful. (Obviously much easier if testing on the ground or if you have a friend in the plane with you).

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Regards

Peter

[Admin]

Hi Phil

The message from SD is confusing
SD continues to communicate when the GPS data is nonexistent.
To prove this, try removing the gps dongle whilst SD is connected and running, it will continue but report loss of satellite

The issue is that the wifi connection is broken
So either Pilotaware dropped the wifi or the ipad droped the wifi

Pilotaware will sometimes drop the wifi IF it has poor power source
Ipad will drop the connection if it thinks there is a better available

An acid test is to remove all network auto joins on the ipad

Also, when you see the disconnect, please take a look if your ipad has selected an alternate network
And give us a pist of Pilotaware home page

Thx
Lee

[PhilPassmore]

Ok, been running for ages today, not been watching the device, so not sure when the issues started. I came in to find the 'not received GPS data in some time' message, and checked the wifi connection to the tablet, which seems solid, with no indication of dropping. I pressed 'Go Flying' again, and selected PAW, and now I get an intermitant connection, with it flicking from 'waiting for device' and it showing my location. Observing Wifi for a while, again, it remains connected, and seems stable. It has been running on the same power source throughout

[PhilPassmore]

And just got the following message, wifi still connected.

[RobertPBham]

I’m sure it won’t be this, but I had a similar issue a while back - PAW would work fine and then occasional issue (drops etc) after working fine for an hour etc.

After a lot of mucking about, I took my case apart and found that the PAW bridge was coming away from the main board - the pins were visible. I think the turbulent air and constant connection and disconnection of the PAW antenna had forced the items to slowly part. I pushed the bridge back in to the connector on the main board and then prevented it from parting by putting something inside against the case so when it was screwed back together, there was no means of anything parting company. This was the PAW classic - I have the Rosetta now and no way of it happening.

After that fix, never had an issue.

[Admin]

Hi Phil

Please note the message throttled 0x50005
This indicates a power issue, if the power reduces the wifi will drop out, this seems to be the issue

What power source are you using ?

Also I have a galaxy tab, and I recall it has a weird issue where after a while it becomes slower to respond to wifi data, and after about a day it would disconnect

Thx
Lee

[PhilPassmore]

Thanks for the feedback. When the fault arose I was running a rechargeable battery being charged while used (LiFePo4), with a commercial four way USB power board, rated at 5 Amps across the four outputs, with only PAW being powered off the board. Power consumption had settled to about the 600 milli amp level. What is puzzling about this if it IS a power problem, is that it will run for a significant tme before the fault arises, and there doesn't seem to be either a surge in consumption, nor any problems with the power source.

[Admin]

Average current is quite low at about 800-900ma
However spikes occur (during transmit etc), and in a perfect
Storm a spike plus heavy processing can cause the power
Rail to dip, then you gave an issue
This warning is generated at about 4.7v

Thx
Lee

[Mig29fuk]

Phil
I had similar problems as you. I have LifePO4 (7 Amp Hour) and it powered Radio and PAW with iPhone 6.
It would drop PAW consistently. When 8.33 became mandated I upgraded to Yaesu 550 but wired that separate from Battery with a 9V supply provided by 12V - 9V Board with regulation.
The iPhone 6 and PAW are now powered via a Charge 2 Unit and the problem has completely gone. Another aircraft in my Hangar chose a Charge 4 after PAW inconsistency.
That too is working 100% reliably. Power/Voltage needs to be adequately above lowest limits of RPi.
Regards
Gerry

[exfirepro]

Hi Phil,

I have just got back to the Forum after another busy day at the Popham Rally on Sunday, then a night in my tent before a (very) long day dodging rain and snow yesterday flying back home to East Fortune.

I’m glad to see that you have now posted screenshots we asked for and that they have borne fruit and that we are now getting to the crux of your problems.

As Lee and Gerry have advised, power levels are critical for effective operation of the RPi. This can be a major source of frustration when fault-finding remotely - especially when the Nav System messages point you to the ‘GPS Device’ when it really means the ‘Data Source’ - hence why we ask for the screenshots. SkyDemon has BTW now changed their messages in the iOS versions which makes this clearer, so I presume Android will follow suit.

For the benefit of future readers of this thread, please let us know how you resolve the problem.

(Personally, I have been using a ‘Charge 4’ in my flexwing for about 3 years now. It provides reliable power to my Rosetta while also maintaining 2 x iPad Minis at full charge - provided they are both pretty much fully charged before starting out.)

Best Regards

Peter

[JCurtis]

also maintaining 2 x iPad Minis at full charge - provided they are both pretty much fully charged before starting out.)

Best Regards

Peter

Hmm, should be able to charge an iPad mini to 100% even if full backlight is on and it's running something like SkyDemon.  Have you put new USB cables on these at all recently? 
Note that ALL usb cables will degrade over time, as they are made of many tiny strands to ensure they are flexible.  After time these start to break dropping the effective current carrying capability of the cable. 

For for Apple Lighting I've also seen the connectors on the device get a bit 'fluffy' preventing good contact and charging issues.  A cocktail stick (as it is wood, so non conductive) can be used to GENTLY clean the socket of embedded fluff.  It's worse for phones kept in pockets, you'd be amazed at how much you can get in there.

It's a common problem, reported as broken device, charger broken, the supplier does this on software to make me buy a new device, etc. when all they need is a new cable and/or a de-fluff. 

[exfirepro]

Hi Jeremy,

Point taken. I was being cautious! We often get PAW users trying to run tablets and PilotAware from the same cigarette-lighter adaptor and then complaining when the tablet takes all the power and throttles the processor in the PAW, causing all sorts of issues, so normally advise against trying to charge tablets from a low charge state in planes because of the high likelihood of interference or other issues.

My Charge 4 habitually runs PilotAware plus the main iPad Mini ‘in the plane’ even on 100% screen brightness and often other devices such as my GoPro as well and the tablet charge state is always 100% by the end of any flight - using a ‘fitted’ JuicEBitz 20AWG USB to 90 degree Lightning cable.

For the trip down to Popham I also ran a second iPad Mini on a kneeboard as a backup and to allow comparisons using the Beta Mode-S/3D software. This pad was connected to the Charge 4 using a domestic standard ‘Apple Type’ lightning lead (which might not even be ‘Apple’). It was fine all the way down to Popham, even though I used both tablets ‘out of the plane’ for a while on the ground during a couple of weather diverts, but on the way back I forgot to plug the charging lead back in to the second tablet when I left Sherburn-in-Elmet. I only noticed this when I got a ‘Low Battery - 10% Remaining’ Warning on screen. I immediately plugged the charging cable back in but to my surprise the pad never got above 11% during the remainder of the trip.

I did notice that the ‘battery charge light’ in the plane wasn’t showing a particularly healthy state for most of the flight from that point on but to be fair I was running PilotAware, Transponder with ModeS-ES, FlarmMouse, Strobes and both iPads and also had the landing light ‘on’ most of the way from that point due to poor viz. I guess that was asking too much of the aircraft alternator. Strangely, however, the main iPad Mini retained 100% charge all the way home!

Regards

Peter

[PhilPassmore]

Ok, so I bit the bullet and bought an Anker, PowerCore+ 20100, and being back home today after a few away, got to try running PAW on it. Well, long and short, after about 5 hours, back to dropouts and the 'Home' screen showing 'throttled=0x5005' as before. Nothing else is running off the Anker, the devices are in close proximity, the tablet seems to think WiFi is still present. Got any more ideas, as I am starting to feel a little frustrated?

[Admin]

Hi Phil

We will be in touch to arrange a return

A fully charged anker 20100 should give more than 5 hrs
How many charge leds are showing on the anker pack ?

Thx
Lee