External Aerial questions and disable pilotaware out signal

[russp]

Hi - I'm working on installing a pilot aware (I have an older classic unit) into my LAA permit aircraft - I currently have a dynon skyview with adsb-out running through the Trig mode S transponder with extended squit so as I understand it outputting a Pilotaware signal is superfluous - can this be disabled, is it necessary to do so - will other users see me twice? which units signal takes preference for other PA users? Will the radio bridge upgrade of the rosetta make much difference if I'm only interested in recieving on the Pi frequency and not transmitting - especially with an external aerial?

Aerials for external mounting - the 1090 adsb aerial looks like it's simply a standard aircraft transponder aerial which would make sense ? I don't need all the other bits from the pilotaware mounting kit and I can mount the pilotaware unit under the pilot seat (the battery is there so there's a readily available power supply (with fuse and step down transformer added)  so won't need long cable runs for aerials mounted under the fuselage but is it possible to get a 869.5MHz antenna from the normal aircraft supplies places ? and if not where can I get one that will fit neatly into an aluminium fuselage like the transponder aerials do? I think the availability of the longer aerial is my main issue.

[PaulSS]

As I understand it, the OGN-R stations need to be aware that you're close by in order to send you information on Flarm traffic. I believe you wouldn't get that information if you did not have PAW Out as they have no way of seeing you otherwise. I don't know if the same scenario will apply to the MLAT information but, seeing as it is being re-broadcast from ground stations I think they will need to know you're there as well (that's guesswork on my part).

I'm interested in the expert answer to will you be seen twice if you have ADSB Out and PAW Out but this amateur thinks not. I believe the receiver sees your HEX code from both PAW and ADSB and realises they are one in the same and just displays one target. I am often wrong, however 

The 1090 ADSB antenna can be as simple as one of the TED transponder antennas.

The PAW/869 antenna can be a Flarm antenna or else you could buy the external antenna kit if you can't be bothered shopping around: https://pilotaware.com/product/external-antenna-installation-kit/

If you use the search function for external antennas you'll find a whole load of information on this site.....most of the questions I've asked myself 

[Ian Melville]

That is correct Paul.
No PAW Transmission= No glider info and no Mode-S3D (MLAT)

To answer the question, yes it can be turned off in the config page by changing your aircraft type to Recieve only. Leaving it on will not display a duplicate on a PAW system, or any other for that matter as they won't receive P3i Transmissions. I cannot think of a good reason to turn it off.

The 1090 antenna could be replaced by a  Transponder one, but they are expensive. The Pilot Aware shop has all you need. A link in Pauls post above. If you contact them they may be willing to sell just the bits you need. I find FLARM kit overpriced. It is also not on the correct frequency for PAW.

[russp]

Thanks for the replies guys that's very helpful, I'll drop the guys at the shop a line about just supplying me what I need - given the transponder aerial is about £35 and the aero install kit is £190 the difference for a 869.5 aerial and the 2m total of cable I need seems a lot, I just have no use for the rest of the Kit.

[Paul_Sengupta]

This sort of thing any good?

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/IoT-Sigfox-antenna-Sigfox-868Mhz-antenna-waterproof-RG58-1m-39-3in-SMA-male-inner-pin/1987472_32816791307.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.21.32235baaetqvxf

[PaulSS]

I'm going to stop reading your links, Paul. Given how much I paid for my PAW external antenna I don't really want to know how much I was ripped off 

[Paul_Sengupta]

 

 

 

Yours is more aerodynamic. Looks even nicer than this one:

https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/PulseLarsen-Antennas/SLPT806DMNW?qs=%2Fha2pyFadujhvOKjtfekDlOsyKOIs0MQDs%2FTQMUiu4v5uQnY%2FErV1g==&fbclid=IwAR08NomsOz6oUqv0vjjL1ZNyPdYmox8T2og1jyIlCH65AJymoGdRL2QiDGI

[Paul_Sengupta]

Seriously, yours looks like a lovely bit of kit! I wouldn't be disappointed with that.

[PaulSS]

I really do have to stop buying things because they're shiny. Here I am with a veritable plethora of equipment that I'm probably not going to install on my EuroFOX because things have changed since I bought the very latest gadget. A good example is my SP12 super-duper, you can't bend it, all singing and dancing external GPS module. SIL = 3 and can talk to all my bits of MGL gear. I got this so I could get SIL = 1 when it was bolted to my TT21 transponder's extended squitter. Now the clever bloke at MGL has updated the internal GPS in the EFIS so that kicks out SIL = 1 on the same set up, without the SP12. I now have a redundant black box 

I must be the a gadget sellers dream 

(Owner of a PAW Classic that is still in its box because I got a bit carried away buying it before the aeroplane has even taken shape in the factory) 

[exfirepro]

Hi Paul & Paul,

Me too! Loads of kit that will probably never see 'real use', but isn't testing (tinkering) just so much fun   

It can be expensive though 

Best Regards

Peter

[Ancien]

Has anyone used the Pulse Larsen antenna that Paul S refers to above?
It's a tidy solution at a reasonable price, but does it perform?
Cheers
Bob

[Admin]

I could not recommend that antenna at all, look at the frequency range it is intended to cover, its extremely wide
This will be suboptimal I am certain as it is so out of tune

Thx
Lee

[Ancien]

Thanks Lee

It did seem to be a bit broad in it's frequency range.

It would be great if we could just buy the new rigid external antenna on its own. I have the original, ground plane required, wobbly Ae and it rather offends me!

I have a classic system [with RP3]  pretty much built in and, like many of us, I have no need of all the upgrade bits for Rosetta.

I had enough bits left over from the original [after the tinkering add-ons!] to make a ground station for the price of a bridge.

If you offered the PAW antenna separately on the website just to see the take-up maybe it would make financial sense. [I could say the same for the 1090 Ae]

There are quite a lot of us very satisfied, but desperate to fiddle, out there who might be interested!

Cheers

Bob

[russp]

This external aerial works very well in my permanent PA install - https://friebe.aero/anti-collision-systems-transponders/anti-collision-systems/anti-collision-equipment/flarm-antenna-powerflarm-trx-air-traffic.html?language=en .... write up and pictures here https://spark.adobe.com/page/uOYLxiidmmgUz/

[russp]

There are quite a lot of us very satisfied, but desperate to fiddle, out there who might be interested!

Cheers

Bob

I think if I was you I'd be very tempted to splash out a fiver on the Ali Express 868MHz aerial linked above to see how that worked, it's essentially the same frequency as the flarm aerial I used.