first test flight with Rosetta - advice?

[stodge]

Many thanks first to those on here who helped me distinguish between the micro SD card and SD card adaptor in my previous post - not entirely obvious to someone who is not tech savvy like myself! 

Yesterday I had the opportunity to try out my new rosetta 'in anger' (as it were) in a flight from my home base at Denham to Turweston. The unit was wifi'd to my iPad running SD and my iPhone (5S) running PAW Radar. Settings for bearingless contacts were short range and +/- 1000'.

I have some issues/questions as a result of this first flight which I'd be hugely grateful for help with!   

1. Despite the fact that I had bearingless switched on in SD and also enabled (with Mode C/S filter) in PAW, a number of relatively close Mode S/C transponding contacts were not picked up. Talking to Oxford Radar, for instance, there was one near Rugby which was 5kms away and within 500 feet which I confirmed with Oxford was transponding with altitude Nothing was seen on the cockpit display(s) however. Could that be because 'short-range' is actually too short - even at 5kms?

2. I had a real issue with the fact that traffic distance in PAW Radar and in audio warning configurations is given in KM and NM. This makes no sense at all and could be quite confusing just when things get most busy. KM is used typically for visibility. NM is always used for traffic distance on an ATC radar service (and is also used in SD running PAW). With potentially quite a lot of data being displayed in the cockpit, why on earth complicate matters by making it necessary to perform mental calculations as to a target's distance? PLEASE in a software update can we have the display ranges - and audio alert ranges - in NM and not kilometres???

3. Given the bearingless settings I configured in PAW (as above) I could not understand what the criteria were for the different levels of alert (green, amber, red). Are they based on the target's transponding power or vertical distance from my aircraft or both? Does a red 'danger' alert, for instance, depend on the configuration settings? If one chose +/- 50,000', to take an example, would you get a red alert at, say, 1000 feet separation from a target, but if you chose, +/- 500 ft you would only get that red alert at, say, 100 ft? Because I don't know, I also don't know how much to worry - or how high (or low) in the sky to scan.

4. On my iPhone displaying PAW Radar the GS-OGN-1 banner goes slap over the vertical distance selected figure - so I couldn't see what I had selected or therefore change it (please see my attached photo).

5. On the same display an amber alert of traffic has its vertical distance figure almost completely hidden by the graphic of what looks like an aerial. Are these aerials OGN base stations? Is it just coincidence that it happens to be sitting at the centre of my aircraft or is this something else?  Perhaps more worryingly, given the relative proximity of the traffic, this was potentially 'challenging' situation since I could not clearly see the vertical distance of the other target.

6. I also think the graphics identifying the up/down/level of other traffic is far too faint and not easily seen. One has to keep remembering that this is a busy cockpit environment, not an office desk, and you need to spend as little time as possible looking at the radar screen!

7. Can someone also actually tell me what GS-OGN 1 actually means? OGN is the Open Glider Network and I believe 1 means 1 base station - but GS? I can't find the answer to that one in any of the manuals.

8. Finally, though this might be a SD question, I kept getting my own transponder as a target even though I had set the HEX correctly both in PAW and on SD in the aircraft edit page. Anyone have an explanation? It got so annoying that I ended up switching it off.

So - these are my questions after my first flight. Have no doubt that PAW is going to be a great boon in time but I need to work through these wiggles first! Perhaps others have had similar issues?

If anyone can supply any answers to the above I will gladly buy him or her a decent drink! I really want to get this right.

Thanks!
Stodge

[stodge]

Apologies for my typo but on point 2 it should have read: I had a real issue with the fact that traffic distance in PAW Radar and in audio warning configurations is given in KM and NOT NM.

[exfirepro]

Many thanks first to those on here who helped me distinguish between the micro SD card and SD card adaptor in my previous post - not entirely obvious to someone who is not tech savvy like myself! 

Yesterday I had the opportunity to try out my new rosetta 'in anger' (as it were) in a flight from my home base at Denham to Turweston. The unit was wifi'd to my iPad running SD and my iPhone (5S) running PAW Radar. Settings for bearingless contacts were short range and +/- 1000'.

I have some issues/questions as a result of this first flight which I'd be hugely grateful for help with!

Hi Stodge,

I’ll try to answer your questions in sequence below.

1. Despite the fact that I had bearingless switched on in SD and also enabled (with Mode C/S filter) in PAW, a number of relatively close Mode S/C transponding contacts were not picked up. Talking to Oxford Radar, for instance, there was one near Rugby which was 5kms away and within 500 feet which I confirmed with Oxford was transponding with altitude Nothing was seen on the cockpit display(s) however. Could that be because 'short-range' is actually too short - even at 5kms?

Short range is too short for 5Kms - especially if either aircraft’s antenna placement is anything other than optimal. I would suggest you run in Medium Range and +/- 1000ft to get used to things. Also make sure nothing metal (or human) is obstructing your antennas.

2. I had a real issue with the fact that traffic distance in PAW Radar and in audio warning configurations is given in KM and NM. This makes no sense at all and could be quite confusing just when things get most busy. KM is used typically for visibility. NM is always used for traffic distance on an ATC radar service (and is also used in SD running PAW). With potentially quite a lot of data being displayed in the cockpit, why on earth complicate matters by making it necessary to perform mental calculations as to a target's distance? PLEASE in a software update can we have the display ranges - and audio alert ranges - in NM and not kilometres???

I can only say that this is a spin-off from the core software used for initial development. All PAW horizontal distances are reported in Km (or Metres) and all altitudes (relative altitudes) are reported in feet. It would be for Lee to say, but we are probably too far down the road to alter this easily and most of us have learned to live with it.

3. Given the bearingless settings I configured in PAW (as above) I could not understand what the criteria were for the different levels of alert (green, amber, red). Are they based on the target's transponding power or vertical distance from my aircraft or both? Does a red 'danger' alert, for instance, depend on the configuration settings? If one chose +/- 50,000', to take an example, would you get a red alert at, say, 1000 feet separation from a target, but if you chose, +/- 500 ft you would only get that red alert at, say, 100 ft? Because I don't know, I also don't know how much to worry - or how high (or low) in the sky to scan.

The colours and audio warnings for ‘Bearingless targets’ reflect ‘degree of risk’, predominantly calculated in terms of proximity determined from the strength of received signal from the transmitting aircraft’s transponder. These are triggered automatically by algorithms within the software based solely on your selected Mode CS ‘Range’ setting. In all cases, the on-screen warning includes the Relative Altitude to your own to assist with vertical scan direction. You will soon get used to which way to look though you still need to scan through 360 degrees of course - (until ModeS-3D MLAT becomes more widely available).

4. On my iPhone displaying PAW Radar the GS-OGN-1 banner goes slap over the vertical distance selected figure - so I couldn't see what I had selected or therefore change it (please see my attached photo).

Simply because of the screen size and the fact that your screen is vertical (most run the Radar horizontal on the coaming or near the top of the dash). Not sure if this can be made smaller - or moveable - Lee ?

5. On the same display an amber alert of traffic has its vertical distance figure almost completely hidden by the graphic of what looks like an aerial. Are these aerials OGN base stations? Is it just coincidence that it happens to be sitting at the centre of my aircraft or is this something else?  Perhaps more worryingly, given the relative proximity of the traffic, this was potentially 'challenging' situation since I could not clearly see the vertical distance of the other target.

Yes, the amber antenna rings are indicating the location of the Ground Station, which must have been directly below you, though the first digit of the other aircraft’s altitude is actually being obstructed by the nose of your own aircraft! You could adjust the horizontal range to create clearance but that would probably not be sensible in flight. In practice what you can see is +()8 ^ which indicates that the other aircraft is a minimum of 800ft above you - assuming the first digit is a zero (which I’m pretty sure it is) and that the aircraft is climbing away from your altitude (from the up arrow to the right of the altitude). Trying to avoid any such ‘overlaps’ of information on a small screen is unfortunately practically impossible, but increased familiarity with the system will improve your ability to interpret this type of minor conflict.

6. I also think the graphics identifying the up/down/level of other traffic is far too faint and not easily seen. One has to keep remembering that this is a busy cockpit environment, not an office desk, and you need to spend as little time as possible looking at the radar screen!

This will of course be a function of your device screen brightness. Again, familiarity will improve things and reduce time spent looking at the screen.

7. Can someone also actually tell me what GS-OGN 1 actually means? OGN is the Open Glider Network and I believe 1 means 1 base station - but GS? I can't find the answer to that one in any of the manuals.

It simply means you are in range of (and hence able to receive aircraft position re-broadcasts from) 1 x OGN-R Rebroadcast Ground Station.

8. Finally, though this might be a SD question, I kept getting my own transponder as a target even though I had set the HEX correctly both in PAW and on SD in the aircraft edit page. Anyone have an explanation? It got so annoying that I ended up switching it off.

You certainly shouldn’t be seeing your own transponder on SD. You weren’t carrying out rapid climbs or descents at the time were you? If so, there is a fix for this in the forthcoming software update (due soon). If not, I would suggest double checking that your Hex is correct in all devices (including your transponder - mistakes here aren’t unknown!) and make sure your configuration changes have been fully ‘Saved’.

So - these are my questions after my first flight. Have no doubt that PAW is going to be a great boon in time but I need to work through these wiggles first! Perhaps others have had similar issues?

If anyone can supply any answers to the above I will gladly buy him or her a decent drink! I really want to get this right.

Thanks!
Stodge

Hope this helps - if not come back to me.

Best Regards

Peter

[stodge]

Hi Peter,

Many thanks of this comprehensive response to my questions. (I have to say though that I'm still a little confused about the alerting criteria in bearingless contacts, but I'll leave that one for the moment! Basically, if it's red, get your eyes on stalks.)

One point I did forget to mention: when, before flight, I selected Pilot Aware in Skydemon in 'Third Party Devices' and then clicked Go Flying - again selecting Pilot Aware from the options available - my iPad could not get a GPS signal. I tried with another iPad and had the same situation. Nada. In the end I went back to Third Party Devices and, on a whim, selected GDL 90, then went to Go Flying and did the same. Hey presto - it worked! The GPS signal came in and my PAW was up and running in Skydemon.

This is not supposed to happen like that, right? Do you - or does anyone - have an explanation?

On the HEX code, just to be clear - I was not getting my own return as a target in PAW, just in SD. I checked to see if I'd entered the code incorrectly in SD in my aircraft settings and I hadn't. Given that I'm only getting myself as the target in SD but not PAW I can't understand how this is happening. It would be great to fix it because at the moment I can't use PAW in SD. 

On the up, down. level symbols - to me this is not a question of screen brightness because everything else on the screen is normal. It's a question of emphasis in the graphic itself (like making a font bold) so that it stands out clearly. At the moment I think the symbols are too faint, at least for my eyes, which makes me spend more time than I want looking at the screen when I need to be looking outside. Perhaps others have had similar experiences? 
 
Thanks for any help!

Stodge

[Ancien]

I share Stodge's opinion of the metric ranges.
After 55 years of flying, my eyeballs are calibrated in nautical miles!
I have no idea how difficult it would be to change it, but it would be very helpful.
Cheers.
Bob

[Giver]

+1 if possible!

[exfirepro]

Hi again stodge,

You will find a pretty good explanation of how the different warning systems work in the User’s Manual, downloadable here... https://pilotaware.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/180520-Operating-Instructions-.pdf

For Pure Mode C or S Aircraft (which we refer to as ‘Bearingless’ due to the fact that raw transponders Do NOT Transmit their Position - this normally has to be determined by a combination of the bearing of a RADAR head and the time taken for the transponder’s reply to a RADAR interrogation to get from the transponder to the RADAR head. Unfortunately, we don’t have a RADAR head, so we have to do the best we can from the aircraft’s ALTITUDE (which is broadcast in response to interrogation) and the strength of the reply signal as received at YOUR Aircraft. The way it works is by measuring the strength of the received signal against a set of 3 predetermined values for each of the optional Mode C S Range Settings. Think of these ranges as ‘Sensitivity Settings’. The longer the range you select, the more sensitive the system and the more alerts you will be given.

For each alert you should get... ‘Traffic Notice xxx feet (above below or level)’ This is your ‘Early Warning’ at which point you need to scan (above, below or level) for the target, though bear in mind that at longer range, you probably won’t see anything. If the aircraft continues to get closer you will hear ‘Traffic Alert xxx feet above (etc). You now need to be rescanning carefully in the vertical direction indicated (above), taking account of the reported vertical separation. Hopefully you will now find the aircraft and can continue or adjust your track accordingly. Continuing approach by the other aircraft will produce ‘Traffic DANGER xxx ft above, below or level’ at which point, if I still can’t see the aircraft I would initiate a couple of clearing turns in case it is behind / below me and be prepared to initiate a climb or descent (depending on reported relative altitude) to increase vertical separation.

The one slight hitch that you need to be aware of is that if the alerts are generated by a high power CAT Mode S aircraft (whose transponder can be up to 500 Watts as opposed to GA around 100 - 200 Watts), you might get a rapid message transit through Notice / Alert to Danger when the aircraft is still well out of range. Not a lot we can do about this situation at present, but you will soon get to recognise the rapid approach ‘signature’ as High Power CAT.

With regard to the GPS messages appearing at connection on SD, I suspect this is because your PAW hasn’t got a proper GPS fix yet. This can happen if the unit has been moved a significant distance while turned off - e.g. from home to airfield. To check if this is the case, connect your Tablet/Phone WiFi to PilotAware, then go to the PAW Home Screen on 192.168.1.1 and check to make sure the GPS Row is reporting ‘Green’ before you select ‘Go Flying’ on SD.

Finally, when you say your aircraft is reported on SD, I take it you are aware that it is ‘Normal’ for your aircraft symbol to appear at your location on SD - or do you mean a ‘duplicate’ aircraft?  I’m confused by your reference to entering your ‘Hex ID’ in SkyDemon. What you should be putting in SkyDemon/Settings/Aircraft Library is your Aircraft REG NOT Hex ID. Filtering of your own transponder/PilotAware is all done in PilotAware.

Regards

Peter

[stodge]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for this.

Regarding the alerts for bearingless traffic, your explanation seems to suggest that the voice alert will ALSO give vertical distance (you write ‘Traffic Alert xxx feet above (etc)') - but that is not the case for my unit. It simply says 'traffic alert' or 'traffic danger' etc - nothing about vertical distance (though there is that warning visual banner in the PAW radar). Am I doing something wrong? Certainly a voice alert giving vertical separation from bearingless would be a huge bonus!

Regarding the self-as-target issue - no, I am getting my own aircraft as an actual target sitting as a red aircraft symbol on top of my yellow aircraft symbol in SD with non-stop visual alerts. The hex code is correctly inputted in PAW, but there is also an option to include it in SD's own aircraft set-up page (along with the reg of course) which I duly did. Should I have? Could this be the source of the problem - i.e. that it should only be inputted in PAW but not SD? Very odd though. Trouble is I can't use PAW in SD unless I fix this somehow!

Best, Stodge

[Ian Melville]

Stodge, are you able to post screenshots of your Home, config, and traffic pages from PAW? And the  Navigations Options from SD?

Cheers
Ian

[exfirepro]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for this.

Regarding the alerts for bearingless traffic, your explanation seems to suggest that the voice alert will ALSO give vertical distance (you write ‘Traffic Alert xxx feet above (etc)') - but that is not the case for my unit. It simply says 'traffic alert' or 'traffic danger' etc - nothing about vertical distance (though there is that warning visual banner in the PAW radar). Am I doing something wrong? Certainly a voice alert giving vertical separation from bearingless would be a huge bonus!

Regarding the self-as-target issue - no, I am getting my own aircraft as an actual target sitting as a red aircraft symbol on top of my yellow aircraft symbol in SD with non-stop visual alerts. The hex code is correctly inputted in PAW, but there is also an option to include it in SD's own aircraft set-up page (along with the reg of course) which I duly did. Should I have? Could this be the source of the problem - i.e. that it should only be inputted in PAW but not SD? Very odd though. Trouble is I can't use PAW in SD unless I fix this somehow!

Best, Stodge

Hi Stodge,

Re-visiting this in the cold light of day. I have rechecked SD’s New Aircraft Setup and you are correct re inserting a Hex (a long time since I set mine up - sorry for the confusion).

I must admit I am struggling to work out what is going on here. The only scenario I can think of where your aircraft can show as a target is if you have something in the aircraft transmitting which isn’t being filtered out by your PilotAware. You aren’t by any chance running some sort of FLARM device or a SkyEcho are you? Or is it perhaps an OGN-R Ground Station that is causing the false alerts? The screenshots Ian has asked you for should help clarify the situation. A screenshot of your SD screen showing the red aircraft symbol would also help.

Note - you will need to resize the screenshots to attach them to your post, or put them in ‘Dropbox’ and post a link. Come back if you need help with this.

Regards

Peter

[grahambaker]

For what it's worth, I use SkyDemon on an iPad, have never input Hex Id and have only rarely experienced the 'Mode C shadow aircraft' problem intermittently, and not once since upgrading to the Rosetta from the Classic.

[stodge]

Thanks Peter, Ian and everyone here.

I am attaching a screenshot of my aircraft as a target in SD here, and also the hex code input in SD setup for my aircraft.

I don't have my PAW Rosetta unit here at home (it's in the aircraft at Denham) so I don't know how to access the PAW 192.168.1.1 address without it in order to send screenshots of my home and config pages there. Any suggestions gratefully received!

Two other quickies:

a. Regarding the voice alerts for bearingless traffic in PAW - do they contain the target's vertical distance or not. Am not clear, so don't know if I'm missing something vital here or not.

b. Finally, regarding the non-GPS signal issue in SD when selecting Pilot Aware, I appreciate that this might be because the unit was still referencing my home and not the airfield, but how can that explain why I instantly got a sensible GPS reading when I selected GDL 90 in the SD options?

Would dearly love to fix all this before my next trial run on Saturday!

Stodge aka Stephen

[stodge]

PS - forgot to mention I don't have FLARM or SkyEcho. I do have ADSB-OUT linked to my Trig transponder (this was done by my avionics chap at our recent annual) and the GPS info for this comes from the panel GTN 650.

[Ian Melville]

Hi Stodge,
The Hex code put into SkyDemon is only used for Flight Plans and is irrelevant as far as this issue is concerned. That same code needs to be entered into PAW config page as well as your transponder. I would hope that your avionics chap did the transponder for you? We can check that if we get a screenshot from the traffic page.

Without the PAW, there is no way to get the screenshots we require. I'll add some screenshots of what it should look like.
Your questions
a) We have no position data for bearingless traffic so the only indication of distance is the type of alert (Traffic, Notice, danger). If within 10,00 feet of you it will also give the height above or below you. If more than 10,000 feet it will say traffic Above(assume there won't be much that is 10K below :-)) Note traffic will only show or be announced if the filters in SD and PAW allow.
b) I suspect there is no issue with the GPS other than the time to acquire a fix.

Screenshots. I have mocked up the settings you should have in PAW and SD. The settings are for a typical flight use without being overloaded with distant traffic you have no interest in. Enter the red figures if you want to test on the ground. Remember to save the page after you have changed the settings. Refresh the page after to confirm that have been taken.

Cheers
Ian

[exfirepro]

Hi Stephen,

Sorry, I didn’t get back to the Forum last night, but Ian M has done the needful and is completely correct in what he says. The only thing I would have set differently is trying ‘Medium’ Range in view of your earlier concerns about not getting warnings from nearby aircraft - though the other potential reasons for this were explained above. (I’m usually testing new software or project developments, so generally fly on ‘Medium’ or even ‘Long’ Range so that I see and hear more warnings from Bearingless targets, but that causes significantly more audio alerts, often from aircraft too far away to be a threat - which can be distracting, so most experienced users probably do fly on ‘Short’ Range.) Edit: See also last paragraph below.

From your screenshots, the ‘Danger’ aircraft is definitely your own (assuming you were flying G-MICI). This should have been filtered out by the PilotAware software and NOT passed as a danger to SkyDemon. This brings us back to an inconsistency between the Hex ID in your PilotAware and in your Transponder/ADSB Setup.

Which Trig Transponder do you use? It will be fairly easy to check the Hex setting in it by reference to the manual. (Mine is a TT21, but I’m guessing yours will be one of the bigger units.) If you let me know, I will look up the manual (or ask my mate at Trig).

When you get to Denham, power up both units, then connect your tablet to the PilotAware WiFi. Log in to the PilotAware Home Screen using the URL address 192.168.1.1. Wait until you have a full set of green indicators (or at least everything except the ADSB one - which can stay red / amber if there’s no ADSB traffic about), then switch to the ‘Configure’ Screen and check your settings as per Ian’s screenshot. Remember to ‘Save’ the settings at the bottom of the screen and check that they have saved.

Edit:Quick afterthought - check carefully that you haven’t mistyped any ‘O’s or ‘1’s when entering your Hex ID - it’s an easy mistake to make - I have seen it done several times, even by the most knowledgeable and competent people!

If the Hex in your PAW is correct, the problem must be with your transponder, so you will need to turn it off and restart it in setup mode (see manual) then carefully scroll through the settings to find and check the Hex ID and if necessary change it.

One or other of these will almost certainly be causing the problem.

BTW, although not essential, it’s good practice to check for ‘5 Greens’ on the PAW Home Screen after engine startup (especially if PAW is powered from the plane) - to ensure it is fully functional before starting Go Flying on SD, as engine startup can sometimes cause PAW to restart. I suspect the reason SkyDemon magically started working when you changed to GDL90 was nothing to do with changing the setting but simply that PAW had achieved GPS fix by the time you changed ‘Go Flying’ over from ‘PilotAware’ to ‘’GDL90’. It should work equally well in PilotAware, GDL90 or even the FLARM setting - though you won’t get visual alerts from Bearingless targets using GDL90.

Blinding Flash of Light..... Duh...! Why didn’t any of us spot that earlier - you said in your second post that you changed over to GDL90 because SD said it wasn’t getting a GPS fix on the ‘Use PilotAware’ setting - The GDL90 protocol doesn’t support the display of Bearingless targets in SkyDemon, which explains why you weren’t ‘seeing’ Transponder equipped aircraft - though you should still have got audio warnings for them via PAW Audio (but not SkyDemon).

Ah well that’s one reason tracked down, just the Hex IDs to sort out now.

At least it proves we’re Human.... Sorry 

Regards

Peter