Author Topic: Loss of connection (again)  (Read 11009 times)

tfede

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2018, 04:02:31 pm »
I am having the very same problem since a long time ago.
SD exits from navigation becuse "it did not get GPS for a very long time".
All is really working becuase my EKP-V connected through a serial converter is showing traffic properly.
Disconnections from my ipad mini happened from the very beginning, i tried all i could do including different power supplies/cables,  wifi and gps modules change, modules position swapping.
Same happens with my new ipad mini 4 and iphone 7+ and, yes i tried also with a Samsung smarphone with the same result.
Anyone having  other ideas on how to fix this issue is welcome.

Federico

Admin

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2018, 05:12:36 pm »
Hi Federico

Firstly the GPS message is confusing, because it is unrelated to GPS, it is actually a WiFi connectivity issue

Can you confirm the following

1. version of Pilotaware you are running
2. Can you provide track files of your flight
3. If you are using Android devices, have you disabled the 'Battery saver mode'

thx
Lee

GeoffreyC

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2018, 12:44:11 pm »
Geoffrey,

Can you check and let us know what Kernel version your PilotAware is running on please. This will be reported on 2nd row - ‘Platform’ on the PAW Home Screen via 192.168.1.1.

Regards

Peter
Hi Peter,  I *was* on kernel 4.4.34.

I say was because things have progressively got worse until I re-imaged the PAW last night.

From when I reported the problem above I have found that my PAW classic has become progressively less and less reliable.  As well as the problems of dropping the connection I noticed that PAW was failing completely.

I'd say my problems were threefold:
- not reliably seeing other local traffic.  e.g. flying on Saturday with other friends following behind me with PAW,  some of the time I could see them, but quite a bit of the time I couldn't.  They were about 4-6km away so I wouldn't have expected any range problems
- dropping wifi connection to the iPad whilst PAW continues to run OK (evidenced by ADSB displayed on my transponder OK)
- PAW failing completely, wifi disappearing, ADSB no longer fed to my transponder

Happening quite frequently now,  getting anywhere between 5 to 30 minutes of stable use at any time.  Interesting that when the PAW completely failed it didn't recover automatically.  Unplugging the USB power lead from the brick and plugging back in would sometimes restore PAW,  but on several occasions it didn't come back and I had to repeat the unplugging and plugging back in again. 

Last night I decided that maybe the PAW software was corrupted in some way and this was why it wouldn't boot reliably so I reformatted the SD card and reinstalled the full software image.  Plugged it in,  waited and waited, and 20 minutes later still no lights flashing on the PAW.
I then unplugged and replugged in the micro USB plug into the PAW and lights started flashing.  Cutting the story short the PAW reloaded OK and so is now running kernel 4.9.35 with PAW 20180520,  however when I wiggled the micro USB plug in the PAW it would sometimes cause the PAW to freeze or reboot.

So I suspect at least the last of my issues may have been due to either a partial damage within the USB cable, or the micro USB socket itself.  I tried with a different cable and it seemed to be more reliable when the cable was at rest (the original cable would die quite frequently) but still had problems when I wiggled it in the micro USB socket.

What's my options for fixing this?  I could replace the USB cable but if it is the micro USB socket as I think it is then I guess I have to replace the entire Raspberry Pi?

Once I get beyond this and have a stable power feed then maybe I will get a better handle on how often the other problems are occurring or whether they are linked.

Geoffrey

Admin

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2018, 01:05:47 pm »
Hi Geoffrey,

If there is a power connectivity problem, then I would expect to see lots of short track files, rather than a single trackfile for the flight duration.

Can you have a look to see if this is the case, each track file has a date/time indicator (UTC) ?

Thx
Lee

tfede

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2018, 03:56:30 pm »
Hi Federico

Firstly the GPS message is confusing, because it is unrelated to GPS, it is actually a WiFi connectivity issue

Can you confirm the following

1. version of Pilotaware you are running
2. Can you provide track files of your flight
3. If you are using Android devices, have you disabled the 'Battery saver mode'

thx
Lee

Hi Lee,

my Replies:
1. Is the latest official update  (but issue was present from the beginning)
2. I'll download the tonight, let me know wher should i send them
3. I used an androdi smartphone just once, usually use Iphone 7+ and ipad mini 4.

Federico

Admin

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 05:01:07 pm »
Hi Federico

I have sent an email where to send the data.
Can you provide a screenshot of your home page ?

I am wondering if you are still running an old kernel

Thx
Lee
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 05:04:34 pm by Admin »

GeoffreyC

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2018, 09:47:19 am »
Hi Geoffrey,

If there is a power connectivity problem, then I would expect to see lots of short track files, rather than a single trackfile for the flight duration.

Can you have a look to see if this is the case, each track file has a date/time indicator (UTC) ?

Thx
Lee
Hi Lee,

I was down at the airfield again yesterday and plugged PAW in again using the original USB lead.   After 10 minutes it hadn't booted up and only had a single red light illuminated.
Tried with a different USB lead and in a few minutes it was working fine.  Wiggling the lead I didn't see any sign that PAW lost power.

Since I have reformatted and reinstalled a fresh installation of PAW I don't have access now to the previous log files so can't be sure about tying them together to when PAW stopped working.  I did download a few of the files beforehand and you should be able to access them on this dropbox folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/j65or1en3dvq5id/AADtEF-QMYLcRD0Dcws6umFna?dl=0

On PAW there are only 3 log files.  Two from Monday (after I'd re-installed PAW) and one from Tuesday.   This exactly matches when I powered up and then unplugged PAW from the power brick.

Thanks

Geoffrey

Admin

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2018, 12:08:06 pm »
Hi Geoffrey

Sounds like you have identified the issue with the power lead, if it works correctly with another lead
Is the 'other' USB lead from another PilotAware unit ?
- these are dedicated power leads using 20AWG power lines rather than the standard USB leads

If not, a standard USB will make it unreliable.

Thx
Lee

GeoffreyC

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2018, 04:08:12 pm »
Hi Geoffrey

Sounds like you have identified the issue with the power lead, if it works correctly with another lead
Is the 'other' USB lead from another PilotAware unit ?
- these are dedicated power leads using 20AWG power lines rather than the standard USB leads

If not, a standard USB will make it unreliable.

Thx
Lee

Hi Lee, the lead that I think has developed the fault was the original PAW USB lead.  I've been a good guy and have always used the one you supplied because of prior warnings about the importance of a decent power supply to PAW.
The new lead I tried with a quick plug-in last night was just a standard USB lead but did appear to work fine.  Yes, acknowledged that if it can't deliver the power then this might lead to problems of its own.

On the pilotawarehardware website I couldn't find the 20AWG USB lead for sale.  If not, is there any recommended ebay or Amazon item ?

Geoffrey

GeoffreyC

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2018, 10:43:28 pm »
Hi Lee, the lead that I think has developed the fault was the original PAW USB lead.  I've been a good guy and have always used the one you supplied because of prior warnings about the importance of a decent power supply to PAW.
The new lead I tried with a quick plug-in last night was just a standard USB lead but did appear to work fine.  Yes, acknowledged that if it can't deliver the power then this might lead to problems of its own.

On the pilotawarehardware website I couldn't find the 20AWG USB lead for sale.  If not, is there any recommended ebay or Amazon item ?

Geoffrey
Update:  Took the originally supplied USB lead home, tried it in a phone and some of the time it worked, some of the time it didn't.  So think this concludes as being the cause of the 'random crashes' problem I was experiencing.

Answered my own question on source of 20AWG USB leads, looking on eBay there are plenty available at all sorts of lengths.  I've bought a 0.5m one as the original one was too long for my flexwing which might have been another cause of the lead getting knocked excessively.
Some eBay sellers were even selling 20WAG USB leads but I think this might be something to do with footballer's wives so I steered clear of these ones.

Let you know if this new lead cures all my other ills.

Geoffrey

exfirepro

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2018, 12:03:16 pm »
Hi Geoffrey,

Just catching up on the Forum after returning from a nature trekking holiday through the Malaysian Jungles - so my internet access has been extremely limited over the past couple of weeks.

I see you have identified one major cause of your problems. Hopefully replacing the lead will resolve it. I buy my leads direct from JuicEBitz - https://www.juicebitz.co.uk/1m-20awg-big-core-usb-type-a-to-micro-b-fast-data-charger-cable-black - are the ones that come with PilotAware. They also come in different lengths (though over 1m are not recommended by PilotAware due to potential voltage drop) and are also available with right-angled micro B plugs.

I thought I should mention that I have experienced issues with the microUSB socket on one user’s unit, probably caused by heavy-handed ‘cable wiggling’ or plugging and unplugging by the individual concerned. I was able to ‘improve’ the connection temporarily by gently re-forming the outside frame of the socket with small pliers, but this was only ever successful in the short term and I ended up replacing the Raspberry Pi board and as an added precaution carefully gluing the plug in place using a hot-glue gun to prevent further ‘fiddling’. If you do find the need to replace the RPi, you could ‘upgrade’ your Classic to an RPi3B as used in Rosetta (NOTE - NOT the 3B+ - which is not yet supported) and ask Lee to transfer your licence across. This has the advantage of being more powerful and having on-board WiFi, thus freeing up an additional USB port.

Please keep us posted.

Best Regards

Peter

GeoffreyC

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2018, 09:52:34 am »
Hi Geoffrey,

Just catching up on the Forum after returning from a nature trekking holiday through the Malaysian Jungles - so my internet access has been extremely limited over the past couple of weeks.

I see you have identified one major cause of your problems. Hopefully replacing the lead will resolve it. I buy my leads direct from JuicEBitz - https://www.juicebitz.co.uk/1m-20awg-big-core-usb-type-a-to-micro-b-fast-data-charger-cable-black - are the ones that come with PilotAware.

I thought I should mention that I have experienced issues with the microUSB socket on one user’s unit, probably caused by heavy-handed ‘cable wiggling’ or plugging and unplugging by the individual concerned. ... If you do find the need to replace the RPi, you could ‘upgrade’ your Classic to an RPi3B as used in Rosetta.

Please keep us posted.

Best Regards

Peter
Hi Peter,  sounds like a great holiday and can understand the lack of wifi in the jungle !

Thanks for your reply.  I did wonder about the power connector on the RPi as well.  The power lead has been pretty much permanently plugged into my PAW since I bought it,  but given that its mounted underneath the base tube of my Quantum, just above the storage bag,  it will of course over time have been knocked.

I'm going to try the lead replacement first and then maybe take apart PAW and check the RPi if that doesn't cure it.  Someone else on the forum I think replaced and re-soldered the micro USB socket on the motherboard but if mine is damaged then I will probably go down the simpler route of fitting an upgraded RPi as you suggest.  I know its been said that the 3B+ isn't currently supported,  is it likely to become so any time soon ?

Cheers, Geoffrey

exfirepro

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2018, 02:13:10 pm »

Hi Peter,  sounds like a great holiday and can understand the lack of wifi in the jungle !

Thanks for your reply.  I did wonder about the power connector on the RPi as well.  The power lead has been pretty much permanently plugged into my PAW since I bought it,  but given that its mounted underneath the base tube of my Quantum, just above the storage bag,  it will of course over time have been knocked.

I'm going to try the lead replacement first and then maybe take apart PAW and check the RPi if that doesn't cure it.  Someone else on the forum I think replaced and re-soldered the micro USB socket on the motherboard but if mine is damaged then I will probably go down the simpler route of fitting an upgraded RPi as you suggest.  I know its been said that the 3B+ isn't currently supported,  is it likely to become so any time soon ?

Cheers, Geoffrey

Hi again Geoffrey,

Glad to be of assistance. I did look at ‘replacing’ the faulty microUSB socket on the Raspberry Pi board, on the customer’s unit, but it needs a very steady hand and a decent temperature controlled soldering station if you want to avoid melting anything else on the board - not for the soldering ‘newbie’ or the faint hearted. In the end I decided it was quicker/easier to replace the board. I would be wary of trying to feed power through the GPIO pins as this will bypass the polyfuse and bearing in mind my former ‘life’ (exfirepro) I certainly wouldn’t want to risk a fire in the plane! This issue has been addressed on the new Rosetta Bridge BTW by adding connection points on the Bridge with an in-line polyfuse for a 5v input, should we opt to use this route, together with ‘potential’ 5v outputs, which could be used to power ‘extras’ such as a fan or whatever, should we need to do so in future.

I’m afraid I can’t say when Lee will get round to modifying the software to support the newer Pi3B+. We tested a modified version of our ‘Engineering Software’ when the 3B+ first came out, but our initial tests raised concerns about GPS reliability, which made it prudent not to support the 3B+ until Lee can work through the issues to ensure reliability. In the meantime he has been extremely busy working on other developments, so hasn’t been able to address this as a priority. I have, however, been running the same Engineering Software on one of my 3B+ units for several months now - with minimal gps dropouts, so hopefully it won’t be too big a ‘fix’ once he gets round to it.

Best Regards

Peter

GeoffreyC

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2018, 08:59:01 pm »
I see you have identified one major cause of your problems. Hopefully replacing the lead will resolve it. I buy my leads direct from JuicEBitz - https://www.juicebitz.co.uk/1m-20awg-big-core-usb-type-a-to-micro-b-fast-data-charger-cable-black - are the ones that come with PilotAware.

Please keep us posted.

Best Regards

Peter
I'm going to try the lead replacement first and then maybe take apart PAW and check the RPi if that doesn't cure it. 
As at the time I didn't have Peter's reply so I went onto ebay and bought this 20AWG 50cm Micro USB lead for £2 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263797900480

Works a treat and PAW the stability has really improved.  Since fitting the new power lead I have flown 13 flights including 2 hour flights to/from Calais and round Norfolk,  and thoughout its been rock solid.
I did have one exception when SD lost connection soon after takeoff.  Turning wifi off and on again on the iPad and I was able to reconnect so hopefully this just an isolated incident.

My learning from this (suggest adding something to the manual) is that as well as the advice about having a good power supply that doesn't interfere with the radio,  also ensure that the power lead is in perfect condition as well.  If PAW starts crashing or randomly dropping connections consider replacing the lead as well.

Am still not convinced I am getting the range from PAW I used to when I first had it.  I see other traffic particularly PAW traffic only when they are within a mile or so of me and am sure that it used to be better than this.  I tried removing the PAW aerial extension lead and connecting the large aerial direct to PAW but it didn't make any appreciable difference - any other ideas?

Thanks, Geoffrey

Admin

Re: Loss of connection (again)
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2018, 09:01:02 pm »
One more comment on this.
It has also come to our attention in a couple of cases that the power supply has been shared between for example an iPad and PilotAware
This effectively halves the current capacity - when a tablet device is low on power, it draws a large constant current

Thx
Lee