Tiding up the cockpit, optimal placement

[a.alexeev.p]

Pilot-aware is great, but I would like to look at options to make it easier to carry and set up cleaner rather than throwing lots of wires on the dashboard. I have looked at some other topics and the website but to be honest got a bit lost in terminology.

So, there is main PAW box, large hard antenna and small antenna on the lead in initial setup that i bought + GPS mouse.

1) Is there some recommendation on the optimal placement of the two antennas with respect to each other ie parallel, at 90 degrees or at 45 or it doesn't matter as long as they avoid metal and water?

2) Somebody online mentioned that they have used this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01J9DH9U2/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1 to replace the small antenna which is on a lead. Is it appropriate to do so?
Or  there are antennas sold on PAW website (again with complex names) so not sure which one (if) can be used to replace the small antenna on the lead

3) Alternatively, especially to avoid overheating in summer, instead of replacing the small antenna on a lead, should I rather buy another lead for extension of the large antenna, keep the box somehwere safe eg in a seat pocket or under my seat and just put on dashboard:
- Large antenna on an extension lead
- Small antenna with the lead
- GPS mouse which I actually already got?

Thank you!

[exfirepro]

Hi again Alex,

Pilot-aware is great, but I would like to look at options to make it easier to carry and set up cleaner rather than throwing lots of wires on the dashboard. I have looked at some other topics and the website but to be honest got a bit lost in terminology.

So, there is main PAW box, large hard antenna and small antenna on the lead in initial setup that i bought + GPS mouse.

1) Is there some recommendation on the optimal placement of the two antennas with respect to each other ie parallel, at 90 degrees or at 45 or it doesn't matter as long as they avoid metal and water?

The main issue is to try to keep the antennas as vertical as possible (though 'upside down' is OK). If position options are limited, the PilotAware one (the longer, thicker one) should be given priority as this is the PilotAware 'Third Eye' (P3i) antenna, which 'talks' to other PilotAwares, but operates on only 500milliWatts, so positioning is fairly critical. On top of your coaming should give good performance towards the front of the aircraft, which is the priority for aircraft avoidance due to highest closing speed. The thinner 1090MHz antenna is looking for much higher power ADSB, Mode S or Mode C signals so positioning is less critical.

2) Somebody online mentioned that they have used this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01J9DH9U2/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1 to replace the small antenna which is on a lead. Is it appropriate to do so?
Or  there are antennas sold on PAW website (again with complex names) so not sure which one (if) can be used to replace the small antenna on the lead

The NooElec antenna can be used, but it is difficult to attach it reliably unless you move everything into a larger case. Take a look at this thread instead... http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,438.msg5661.html#msg5661 ...which shows you how to shorten the 1090 Antenna for better positioning. Shortening the 1090 antenna and cable is quite easy and the antenna can then be easily mounted on top of the PilotAware case with a bit of double sided tape. The antenna length isn't critical - if you cut the wire part in half with strong cutters, it will work fine.

3) Alternatively, especially to avoid overheating in summer, instead of replacing the small antenna on a lead, should I rather buy another lead for extension of the large antenna, keep the box somehwere safe eg in a seat pocket or under my seat and just put on dashboard:
- Large antenna on an extension lead
- Small antenna with the lead
- GPS mouse which I actually already got?

Thank you!

That is effectively what I have done in my flexwing. In this case keep the lead on the 1090 MHz antenna at its full length and buy either an SMA extension lead for the large antenna or replace it with a PAW 'Horn Dipole' With metal bodied aircraft of course, externally mounted antennas are better still, but not so easy to achieve in a PA28 and not so good if you want to use your PAW in different aircraft.

Best Regards

Peter

[Paul_Sengupta]

I'm guessing you mean the coax length isn't critical, rather than the antenna... 

The antenna length of the thin antenna is reasonably important, but as mentioned, it can be cut down.

The other option is to put the whole lot in a Stratux case, but that's a bit more bulky if you're going to place it on the coaming.

[Seanhump]

I'm fully with you on this one ... I move around between a few different aircraft so am currently re-casing in something more portable / cockpit friendly ..

I'm still waiting on a couple of parts to arrive (Christmas break / shipping from the far east etc etc)

I currently have my PAW 'strapped' to the back of my iPad mount - 2nd pic (which in turn uses a twin sucker to attach to the aircraft windscreen)

The finished item all fits in the case as seen on the first pic, with the main P3i antenna (still awaiting the pigtail so I can fit it) going opposite the NooElec 1090 antenna ...

So far (and there will be some changes in the V2 case) I've fitted an inline power switch (a short 20AWG Juice Bits cable was suitably butchered) and thin mesh to the top to aid cooling and allow me to see the LED's on the Pi / Bridge.

The Pi fits nicely in the rest of the space, with room for the USB connected parts ( the ADSB dongle will move from the bottom of the Pi with a very short USB extension), and the Ublox GPS is being replaced with the external mouse type (still in transit) with a shortend cable.

I'm even tinkering with the idea of a small audio amp and speaker to go in there too to make it a truly stand alone unit, but that's still in the tinkering stage - there will be an extention of the Pi's audio out jack on the bottom of the case when the bulkhead fittings arrive ....

I'll do a full post when its all here !!

[a.alexeev.p]

Hi again Alex,

Pilot-aware is great, but I would like to look at options to make it easier to carry and set up cleaner rather than throwing lots of wires on the dashboard. I have looked at some other topics and the website but to be honest got a bit lost in terminology.

So, there is main PAW box, large hard antenna and small antenna on the lead in initial setup that i bought + GPS mouse.

1) Is there some recommendation on the optimal placement of the two antennas with respect to each other ie parallel, at 90 degrees or at 45 or it doesn't matter as long as they avoid metal and water?

The main issue is to try to keep the antennas as vertical as possible (though 'upside down' is OK). If position options are limited, the PilotAware one (the longer, thicker one) should be given priority as this is the PilotAware 'Third Eye' (P3i) antenna, which 'talks' to other PilotAwares, but operates on only 500milliWatts, so positioning is fairly critical. On top of your coaming should give good performance towards the front of the aircraft, which is the priority for aircraft avoidance due to highest closing speed. The thinner 1090MHz antenna is looking for much higher power ADSB, Mode S or Mode C signals so positioning is less critical.

2) Somebody online mentioned that they have used this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01J9DH9U2/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1 to replace the small antenna which is on a lead. Is it appropriate to do so?
Or  there are antennas sold on PAW website (again with complex names) so not sure which one (if) can be used to replace the small antenna on the lead

The NooElec antenna can be used, but it is difficult to attach it reliably unless you move everything into a larger case. Take a look at this thread instead... http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,438.msg5661.html#msg5661 ...which shows you how to shorten the 1090 Antenna for better positioning. Shortening the 1090 antenna and cable is quite easy and the antenna can then be easily mounted on top of the PilotAware case with a bit of double sided tape. The antenna length isn't critical - if you cut the wire part in half with strong cutters, it will work fine.

3) Alternatively, especially to avoid overheating in summer, instead of replacing the small antenna on a lead, should I rather buy another lead for extension of the large antenna, keep the box somehwere safe eg in a seat pocket or under my seat and just put on dashboard:
- Large antenna on an extension lead
- Small antenna with the lead
- GPS mouse which I actually already got?

Thank you!

That is effectively what I have done in my flexwing. In this case keep the lead on the 1090 MHz antenna at its full length and buy either an SMA extension lead for the large antenna or replace it with a PAW 'Horn Dipole' With metal bodied aircraft of course, externally mounted antennas are better still, but not so easy to achieve in a PA28 and not so good if you want to use your PAW in different aircraft.

Best Regards

Peter

Hi again Alex,

Pilot-aware is great, but I would like to look at options to make it easier to carry and set up cleaner rather than throwing lots of wires on the dashboard. I have looked at some other topics and the website but to be honest got a bit lost in terminology.

So, there is main PAW box, large hard antenna and small antenna on the lead in initial setup that i bought + GPS mouse.

1) Is there some recommendation on the optimal placement of the two antennas with respect to each other ie parallel, at 90 degrees or at 45 or it doesn't matter as long as they avoid metal and water?

The main issue is to try to keep the antennas as vertical as possible (though 'upside down' is OK). If position options are limited, the PilotAware one (the longer, thicker one) should be given priority as this is the PilotAware 'Third Eye' (P3i) antenna, which 'talks' to other PilotAwares, but operates on only 500milliWatts, so positioning is fairly critical. On top of your coaming should give good performance towards the front of the aircraft, which is the priority for aircraft avoidance due to highest closing speed. The thinner 1090MHz antenna is looking for much higher power ADSB, Mode S or Mode C signals so positioning is less critical.

2) Somebody online mentioned that they have used this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01J9DH9U2/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_dp_1 to replace the small antenna which is on a lead. Is it appropriate to do so?
Or  there are antennas sold on PAW website (again with complex names) so not sure which one (if) can be used to replace the small antenna on the lead

The NooElec antenna can be used, but it is difficult to attach it reliably unless you move everything into a larger case. Take a look at this thread instead... http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,438.msg5661.html#msg5661 ...which shows you how to shorten the 1090 Antenna for better positioning. Shortening the 1090 antenna and cable is quite easy and the antenna can then be easily mounted on top of the PilotAware case with a bit of double sided tape. The antenna length isn't critical - if you cut the wire part in half with strong cutters, it will work fine.

3) Alternatively, especially to avoid overheating in summer, instead of replacing the small antenna on a lead, should I rather buy another lead for extension of the large antenna, keep the box somehwere safe eg in a seat pocket or under my seat and just put on dashboard:
- Large antenna on an extension lead
- Small antenna with the lead
- GPS mouse which I actually already got?

Thank you!

That is effectively what I have done in my flexwing. In this case keep the lead on the 1090 MHz antenna at its full length and buy either an SMA extension lead for the large antenna or replace it with a PAW 'Horn Dipole' With metal bodied aircraft of course, externally mounted antennas are better still, but not so easy to achieve in a PA28 and not so good if you want to use your PAW in different aircraft.

Best Regards

Peter

Thank you very much for such detailed reply! I have opted for that solution http://pilotawarehardware.com/product/dipolecouplet-antenna/ - so should it be positioned vertically or horizontally ie sort of T like it is in the photo?

[exfirepro]

With the top bar of the ‘T’ as near vertical as possible, rather than horizontal. The theory is that for strongest reception, antennas need to be parallel to each other, i.e. both in the same orientation - with the convention for (most) aviation antennas being vertical. If antennas are 90 degrees out of orientation to each other there is a theoretical loss of signal of 3dB - which is half the signal strength.

Regards

Peter

[Ian Melville]

vertically, as it says on the web page you linked to. I bought a pack of small clear 25mm suction cups that have a small hole in them. Attache one each end with a small tie wrap and stick it to a side screen in the aircraft.