PAW test with Trig TT21

[mrandyhodder]

Hi to all

Apologies if this has been dealt with previously in other threads but trawling through a few of them has not given me the answers and i hope that all you PAW experts out there can shed some light.

My PAW is working well and i can see lots of traffic on the SD program and also on the traffic tab when in 192.168.1.1 but i want to know how to see my TT21 when it is in ALT mode.  In other words test my output and reception.  I believe im going to need a copy/screen print of it for the BMAA.

Is there something im missing on the config page of PAW?  Ive filled the relevant fields in with ID details and the usb in port 1 is all ok as on the trig i can see my gps position on the trig screen.

Should i be pushing/pressing anything on the TT21?

Any help greatfully received and happy to provide screenshots if required.

Thanks

[Steevo25]

Is you aircraft showing on the traffic page?

The LAA and BMAA purely require a printout of this screen showing your aircraft and also that it has the correct ADS-B parameters (SIL and SDA must be zero. These are the last 2 numbers on the ADS-B status).

I myself have a 2nd PAW that I browse with my laptop and just do a print of the screen from the browser to a connected printer. Your LAA inspector may want to witness this as he will sign the printout.

There is nothing specific in PAW to do this for you that I am aware of.

[Giver]

If you change the HEX number on the PAWs from your own HEX number then the PAWs will show your HEX number that the Trig21 is sending out,
But this will only confirm the trig 21 output and won’t be suitable for the LAA or BMA to sign off on,
you will need a second Paws to capture the data from the paws and Trig together to satisfy the paper trail,
this is my original test with my Trig21

[mrandyhodder]

Thanks for the replies,

Steevo,  That is  exactly my problem,,, it is not showing on the traffic page.  I don't have access to a second PAW to do what you suggest.

I was under the impression that my PAW would see my TRIG (which has my Reg ID etc) and it would be displayed on the traffic page so I could capture it.

Giver, I purposely left the HEX number as auto generated on the PAW so I would be able to see my Trig but I'm not seeing it appear which is what prompted me to think I was doing somehting wrong with the set up... could it be that my TRIG is not txmting??  I'm fairly sure it is as I no fauls and do get the small plane icon on the TRIG screen every frew seconds.    All I initially wanted to do is exactly as you said... just confirm the trig output...  as for your test.. I dont even get anything similar to that!!  Hence me wondering what I'm doing wrong?

I now appreciate that I may need a second PAW to get the correct readings for BMAA but I still would like to confirm the TT" is xtming and the PAW is recieving it!

Thanks again.
Andy

[Ian Melville]

Where are you based Andy?

[Steevo25]

Just a few questions.

What type of aircraft is it (metal, composite, wood etc)?

Are you trying it on the ground or in the air?

How far is the Trig main box from the antenna?

What coax are you using?

I ask all these questions because of previous experience issues. If you are on the ground and your transponder antenna is on the bottom, the PAW may not be seeing the signal. Especially if it is a metal aircraft. Hence the reason for a 2nd unit outside.

Just had a recent problem with coax, if RG58 and more than 2ft is being used there could be lots of signal loss for ADS-B.

Also, are you sure you are getting a valid GPS signal on the Trig (push the FN button a couple of times and if there are just dashes there then it is not getting a valid GPS position).

If you are not using ADS-B (i.e. no GPS connected), then it will not show on the traffic screen unless you are being interrogated by ATC which is unlikely if in a hangar or on the ground.

[mrandyhodder]

Ian, currently building my Skyranger Swift2 at home near Malaga in Spain.

Steevo,  thanks again for you reply.

Builing my Swift2 so still on the ground. Yes the Trig stub antenna is underneath to the rear of the pax seat and the PAW antennas on the dash area.

Cable is good quality RG400, 1 mtr long and routed away from any other cables. The box is under the centre console below the centre joystick with the aerial leading away under the floor. Followed the installation guidelines from TRIG.

Definately receiving the gps signal on the TRIG... i get a clear lat long on the screen when scrolling through the FN button and then all dashes when i turn the PAW off. Definately xtmitting on the trig as i get the acft icon flashing on and off.

I think you are probably correct on that the PAW is not seeing the signal. I see all the comercials and privates around the malaga area with no problem... all except mine!
I will try temporarily moving either the trig antenna or the PAW antenna and try again. Im convinced its something simple.

I may have to find someone else with a mobile PAW to confirm.
Rgds
Andy

[Ian Melville]

Ah, a bit far 
The Trig manual makes no mention of the 'Small Aircraft Icon', but there is an indicator that responds to interrogation for a radar (Reply Indicator). Is this the same thing? If so, it is not an indication of ADSB ES output.

Can you post screenshots of your PAW home and config pages with the settings that you are expecting to see your aircraft?

[mrandyhodder]

Hi Ian,

I think its called the reply indicator which in the manual shows a "dash" but now is a small aircraft icon that appears infrequently and I've probably assumed it to be the txmt icon.  You can see it faintly on the ADSB gps screen on the trig screen.  Screenshot attached.

I've attached some other screenshots from a few minutes ago.   As mentioned earlier... I've purposely not put my own acft hex id in to the PAW and left it as auto generated as I don't think this will matter.  All I want to be able to see at this time is my own TRIG!  (I will add the hex once all is up and and running)

As I've made the PAW a permanent fit I need to take the binnacle off to get to the antenna cable and I will try a different position to see if this helps.  Will try this later today. 

Cheers
Andy

[mrandyhodder]

Still no luck...

I moved the PAW antenna to a different location to have line of sight to the TRIG stubby but still no display on the traffic page.

Any further advice would be welcome.

Cheers
Andy

[Ian Melville]

Hi Andy, I cannot see any obvious errors in the config of your PAW.
I am making one assumption that you do not have a squat switch and have wired the Trig so that it cannot disable the transmissions? and set the Trig software to ignore it anyway?

Also, note this comment in the Trig manual:

Note:  On an aircraft without a squat switch, but configured for ADS-B Out, the transponder can use the GPS data to determine the Airborne/Ground mode automatically

I cannot see if there is an option to disable the ADS-B ground mode (section 6.1.6 of the manual is for the hardware squat switch). Since it uses 'Can' rather than 'Will', that would imply that it is configurable? Perhaps you just have to get your aircraft moving :-)

[mrandyhodder]

Hi Ian,

You are correct in that i do not have the squat switch connected and have no wired on this pin of the connector.  Also in the config table i have "not connected" selected.  I'm of a mind that you are probably correct and need to do some "airborne" testing.

I am also going to do a little more testing regarding the position of the PAW antenna so will post back with results.

Thanks again to all for replying.
Cheers

[mrandyhodder]

Success!!

Thanks to the advice received from all of you i’ve Manage to finally see the trig.

I moved the paw antenna until it was virtually underneath the trig stubby before I got my first hit. I then moved it a fair way away and it became intermittent. Moved it back and solid.

I’m happy now that my setup is correct and I will endeavor to find a second paw to capture the screenshot for the BMAA etc.....

Thanks again.
Andy H

[Ian Melville]

I would have thought you would have got better range than that. Also, the ADSB status will need to be populated as that is the data that the LAA/BMAA need to verify. IIRC it builds up over several transmissions. Something you have mentioned before, but I am not convinced that your transmissions from the TRIG are making it to the Stubby antenna. It is possible to get a weak signal when there is a fault in the coax. Are you able to test the coax and fittings?

[mrandyhodder]

Hi Ian,

I literally hit the screen capture button as it came up....hahah.

I have tested the Rg400 coax for continuity and all is good....

I think I'm going to roll the plane outside when I can get hold of another PAW to do some more testing.

Cheers
Andy