PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: NeilOnions on May 13, 2017, 03:36:01 pm
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I have connected my Trig TT21 transponder to the preferred USB-RS232 cable and had no problem with location data being displayed previously.
Since then I have updated the software on the PA, and added the bridge, and now have no data at the transponder.
As part of the fault finding process can someone tell me if the LEDs in the USB FTDI cable flash normally in use ?
I have tried outputting data from a PC to the cable and the red led flashes, showing data transmission, but nothing, apart from the initial boot-up on the PA....
The Home screen shows the FTDI cable ok..
cheers
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Neil, can you confirm.
Your PAW previously sent location data to the Trig, you then added the bridge?
Is the PAW working normally otherwise? I am wondering if you have added the correct licence key.
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I have connected my Trig TT21 transponder to the preferred USB-RS232 cable and had no problem with location data being displayed previously.
Since then I have updated the software on the PA, and added the bridge, and now have no data at the transponder.
As part of the fault finding process can someone tell me if the LEDs in the USB FTDI cable flash normally in use ?
I have tried outputting data from a PC to the cable and the red led flashes, showing data transmission, but nothing, apart from the initial boot-up on the PA....
The Home screen shows the FTDI cable ok..
cheers
Neil,
Yes, From memory the green LED flashes to indicate normal operation.
You say you had this working OK before you fitted the Bridge and updated the software. You didn't by any chance rewire after this as it sounds like you may have the wrong wires connected. For ADSB out you need the Orange Tx Data wire connected to GPS Input Pin 5 on your Trig 25 pin connector and the Black Wire from your RS232 connected to Ground Pin 4 on the Trig 25 pin connector. Worth checking.
Also check that you have the correct USB port in your PAW configured to 'Transponder Trig' at 9,600 Baud. Remember the USB ports are NOT numbered the same as on the quick start sheet. For configuration, they are numbered from top to bottom then left to right...
Viewed looking towards the ports, they are numbered....
Ethernet Port Port 1 Port 3
(On Left Side) Port 2 Port 4
...so the 'Spare' port is normally 'Port 1'. This is a very common error and you would have had to reconfigure this after fitting your Bridge.
Let me know if this works.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter - exactly what you thought - I had not set the correct port.
easy if you know how !
Neil
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Thanks Peter - exactly what you thought - I had not set the correct port.
easy if you know how !
Neil
Hi again Neil,
Easy - yes, but just because I have come across this problem several times now. It probably arises due to confusion between the 'Quick Start Guide' supplied with the 'Kits', which numbers the parts 1,2, 3, etc. sequentially to get the unit up and running quickly and the actual port numbering used by Raspberry Pi and Lee's software, which is as described above.
Glad you have it running now and others will no doubt benefit from reading this again.
p.s. for future reference - if doing a USB stick update - DON'T use a port configured for ADSB Out (or FLARM In) as this can occasionally corrupt any other files on your memory stick. It's best to temporarily remove the GPS dongle and use that port for the USB stick update. Also DON''T remove the WiFi Dongle unless your PAW is powered down.
Regards
Peter
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Absolutely ridiculous that the port numbers are not clearly shown in the instructions.
I have spent all afternoon installing the ADSB lead from PA to my Trig TT21. Couldn't get it to work. But thought that the Spare port was number 4 according to the quick start guide. Will try again later this week to see if I can get it working.
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GGVSL,
The PilotAware 'Quick Start Guide' supplied with new PilotAware Classic Kits is provided as a simple assembly guide for new PAW users. For this reason, it uses simple sequential numbering to 'indicate' which ports each dongle referred to in the instructions should be plugged into.
The 'Quick Start Guide' is not intended to support more advanced operations, such as configuring PilotAware to support ADSB-Out or FLARM-In. Such advanced operations are outlined in the full 'Operating Instructions', referred to in the 'Quick Start Guide' and available at...
http://www.pilotaware.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/170223-Operating-Instructions.pdf
It is not possible to give definitive 'Instructions' for these operations due to the variety of different systems and cable types currently available. The USB Port Numbers, however, are correctly numbered in this document in the Configuration Section (see pages 33-35) in accordance with standard Raspberry Pi USB Hub configuration.
We are aware of the need to update the Operating Manual and add more detailed guidance on advanced connectivity for ADSB-Out and FLARM-In and this is in hand.
Changing the Quick Start Manual to reflect Raspberry Pi Port Numbering will IMO simply confuse the majority of our 'non-technical' users.
Please accept our apologies for any misunderstanding this may have caused. If you have any problems getting your ADSB up and running please ask on here or drop me a PM.
Regards
Peter
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Absolutely ridiculous that the port numbers are not clearly shown in the instructions.
I have spent all afternoon installing the ADSB lead from PA to my Trig TT21. Couldn't get it to work. But thought that the Spare port was number 4 according to the quick start guide. Will try again later this week to see if I can get it working.
Sorry you are having problems.
Page 35 of the Operating Instructions defines the ports very clearly.http://www.pilotaware.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/170223-Operating-Instructions.pdf (http://www.pilotaware.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/170223-Operating-Instructions.pdf)
Port 1 Top left USB port (with the Ethernet port to the left).
Port 2 Bottom left USB port (with the Ethernet port to the left).
Port 3 Top right USB port (with the Ethernet port to the left).
Port 4 Bottom right USB port (with the Ethernet port to the left).
We will update the quick start guide which describes the sequential start up process rather than the port locations.
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...The USB Port Numbers, however, are correctly numbered in this document in the Configuration Section (see pages 33-35) in accordance with standard Raspberry Pi USB Hub configuration.
I wonder if it would make it clearer if we posted a graphic with the port numbering in addition to the textual description
Thx
Lee
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The confusion is because the 'quick start guild' and the full manual differ. Having used the 'quick start' guide to set the PAW up on delivery, the user assumes they know which port is which. In my opinion he 'quick start' needs to reflect reality, perhaps with a photo to help.
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OK,
Lee -Yes, a graphic with the ports numbered in the Configuration Section of the Operating Manual would be much better than the current written description, which I always felt was a 'stop gap' to get the original Operating Manual up and running. We can also use the same graphic to illustrate the proposed ADSB-Out / FLARM-In Guidance Sections.
Ian - I agree in principle, but that is why users are referred to the full manual to carry out any more advanced configuration. Unless done very carefully, changing the Quick Start Guide will simply generate loads of 'Why don't you use Port 1' or 'Why can't I put such and such in Port XY' type questions. A Quick Start Guide needs to be kept as simple as possible and assume a low level of technical knowledge to avoid loads of extra problems.
Regards
Peter
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I've read every manual I can find, old and new reference the port allocation but cannot find an explicit instruction hence this question.
What do you allocate ports, as I believe I need to do when adding the FTDI cable and using it to output to a Funke TXP, I've done the port for the GPS and the TXP, what do I do with the ports that have the wifi dongle and the 1090 antenna connected to them?
I have assumed leave them in 'auto' there are a few other options on the drop down but I don't know what they mean, do the other options relate to the wifi and the 1090 antenna? Or is Auto how to leave them?
Thanks, Clive
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Hi Clive,
Are we talking a Classic or Rosetta here? Not that it matters significantly as both are essentially the same. See my Reply #2 above, from 2017 for the port layout. It is the same on both PilotAware Classic and Rosetta (once you remove the case end from Rosetta).
You should NOT re-configure any of the ports from the standard default (Auto and 4800 Baud) except the one you are using for your external device - i.e. the FTDI lead to your transponder. This will normally go in Port 2 for the Rosetta - as this is directly opposite the cutout in the Rosetta case (the opening in the top half of the case needs to be opened out carefully with a round file so the cover can be slid back on). If it is a Classic, you can use Port 1, or rearrange the existing dongles to allow you to use Port 2. Again, none of the Ports should be reconfigured except the one you are using for your FTDI lead.
The Txpdr port normally needs to be configured to provide NMEA gps data to the transponder (if this is the case use the 'Transponder Trig' setting and the baud rate should be set to the same speed in both PAW and the Transponder (we normally use 9600 for Trig - you need to check the required rate in your particular Transponder Manual).
If you let me know exactly which model of Transponder you are using, I will check the connection requirements for you. Edit: see below
Regards
Peter
Edit: -
See - Connecting PAW to a transponder here... https://pilotaware.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/160902-Connecting-to-a-transponder-.pdf
and ADSB Out from TRT800A or TRT800H here... http://docs.fasvig.info/ADS-B/Funke_TRT800A-H_Connection_uncertified_GPS.pdf *
There is also a useful article on what you are trying to achieve here, (most of which however you don't need)... https://getyourwings.co.uk/connecting-an-uncertified-gps-to-a-transponder-for-ads-b-out/
* It appears from this article that you need to connect Orange from the FTDI to Funke pin 12 (Brown), and Black from the FTDI to Funke pin 1 and/or pin 9, (Blue) and (probably) set the Baud Rate to 4800. ( For the Trig, we usually set the Baud to 9600 - but the important thing is to set both devices to the same setting). Also note the warnings regarding disassembling the connectors on the Funke (I can't help you with that one I'm afraid).
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Hi Peter, thank you for getting back to me.
I have a classic, it's got the latest software, I'm connecting the FDTI to a Funke(Well it's a Filser TRT800A) that previously reported ADSB from an old Garmin GPS, NEMA 4800. Wiring is as before just reconnected.
I recently fitted remote antennas and relocated the unit under the panel and am still shaking it down, thought I'd add the PAW GPS to the TXP.
USB connections have been messed with as I moved them around as I didn't think initially the FDTI cable would fit alongside the TX/RX adaptor. However it does if you're careful. So I have lost track of what should go where though, this morning by finding an old classic manual, I have found where they started, that looks to be: Port 1 spare, port 2 TXRX, port 3 GPS, port 4 Wifi
Currently I have: 1-GPS, 2 TXRX, 3 FDTI, 4 Wifi
I allocated 3 to Funke 4800 and 1 to GPS (Seeing GPS was there, I have a GPS mouse connected).
So I can jig that all back to how it was originally, is that what I need to do? Are the ports allocated in code or somehow and expect the devices in the standard positions? Along with allocating port 1 to FDTI/Transponder Funke 4800.
I have been reading all I can find there are lots of manuals and documents.....
So that's what we have, do I need to move the USB's all back where they were and put the FDTI in 3 and the allocate that?
BTW, Funke are almost ready to do the update they have been suggesting for a few years though their last E mail said they had to order some component stock. That was a month ago, I'll give them a nudge this coming week.
Thanks, Regards, Clive
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Hi Clive,
I'm sure Peter will say the same, but I'll be interested if he doesn't :)
The only USB port that needs to be changed on your Pilot Aware configuration page is the one that runs to your transponder (in your case Port 3). The others, including the GPS mouse, can be set to auto. I have a GPS mouse and there is no need to select anything on that USB port, apart from auto.
So, the way I see your set up, leave everything where it is if it all fits nicely and set the ports thus:
Port 1 - Your GPS Mouse plugged in - Auto
Port 2 - Your ADSB plugged in (Rx only, not Tx) - Auto
Port 3 - FTDI cable to your transponder - Funke 4800
Port 4 - Your Wifi dongle - Auto
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Correct Paul - You after my job? The pay’s rubbish BTW!
Clive, as per Paul’s post, you can put the dongles wherever they fit - the original layout was adopted because they all fit (you can’t for example fit the SDR and GPS side by side due to their width.
All ports should be reconfigured to Auto - 4800, except the one for your FTDI cable, whichever you use, with reference to the Port Numbering referred to earlier.
Please let us know that it works OK.
Regards
Peter
(And Thanks Paul)
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Right, thanks for the feedback.
I actually reverted to the standard set up and followed the suggestions below apart from the FID went in 1 which is allocated Funke 4800.
Ground test screenshots attached and below. Weather was awful last night so only airliners up.
Weather looks to be clearing so hope to fly later and see if I show up on the OGN and FR24 back with ADSB data source.
thanks all, Regards, Clive
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Other screenshots from last night:
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Morning Clive,
Looks good, the only ‘suggestion’ I’d make is that ‘Ultra Short Range’ was designed specifically to deal with high power transponders. If you aren’t operating out of a commercial airport, I would advise increasing your Mode C/S Range setting to ‘Short Range’ otherwise most GA will be VERY close before you are told about them.
Best Regards
Peter
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Thanks, I'll adjust the range.
Went for a flight earlier and everything is working OK, PAW signal is there and also showing up as ADSB.
The only thing that happened was the wifi dropped out a couple of times which doesn't usually happen, well not before the unit went under the panel, it's rather surrounded by panels and brackets so maybe I'll up the wifi power?
Anyhow all good, I've just E mailed Tanya at Funke to see what's happening about the update. Will report back when I hear from her.
Thanks for everyone's help, I'll get on with seeing how well the external aerials work on the next few flights. Has to be said, thus far some contacts appear and disappear randomly so maybe the opening up of the range as mentioned below may help that.
Thanks and Regards, Clive
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Thanks, I'll adjust the range.
Went for a flight earlier and everything is working OK, PAW signal is there and also showing up as ADSB.
The only thing that happened was the wifi dropped out a couple of times which doesn't usually happen, well not before the unit went under the panel, it's rather surrounded by panels and brackets so maybe I'll up the wifi power?
Clive,
If you decide to adjust WiFi, do so carefully in small steps and flight test after each change. There have been cases where too strong a WiFi signal was as bad as too weak.
Depending on what type of tablet you’re using, it would also be worth setting ‘PilotAware Connectivity’ in PAW Configure to whatever protocol you actually use in your EFB - e.g. ‘PilotAware UDP’ at both ends, rather than ‘Auto’.
Regards
Peter
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Wifi was at 50mw, I use an android pad and an iPhone. They both have dropped out, singly and together.
Not a big deal but irritating as it messes the logs up.
BTW I have an Anker bullit and it's been working fine ever since I changed to it several years ago.
Thanks again for the suggestions, Regards, Clive
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Clive,
When you say ‘I have an Anker bullit and it’s been working fine ever since I changed to it several years ago’,- can you be more precise as to the actual model, or can you post a link, please, to help with my battery survey.
Best Regards
Peter
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PAW charger/power supply, it must be a few years since I bought it so the current ones are different.
Unfortunately I can't find the original order but surfing it looks like an Anker Car Charger PowerDrive 2 Elite.
Regards, Clive
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Clive,
I should have realised that’s what you meant, but had a ‘brain fade’ and thought you were referring to a specific model of powerbank - I have already taken a bit of ribbing for that oversight!
Thanks for the clarification.
Edit: I have added info re these ANKER 12 volt to USB adaptors in the ‘Power Sources and Powerbanks‘ thread.
Best Regards
Peter