PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: dave_kent on May 01, 2022, 10:49:37 am
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PAW rosetta connecting to Skydemon on Android.
Yesterday in the climb out, Skydemon reported waiting for device, it was previously fine in the take off run. After stabilising the plane, I switched to chrome to view the status of the PAW, but the website was unresponsive. Android confirmed I was still connected to the PAW WIFI, and I could see lights in the device, although not which ones. Eventually I recycled the power to the PAW, which stopped Skydemon navigation completely. Once PAW restored, I restarted Skydemon and everything was OK for the rest of the flight.
Dave
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Similar happens to me occasionally too:(
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Come on give us a clue.
Which version of Pilot aware are you running?
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Come on give us a clue.
Which version of Pilot aware are you running?
Hi Ian! Sorry, might not be able to provide immediately as much as you possibly require as don't have the unit physically with me now. But some relevant info is the following:
the error on SD Was either green tab saying “GPS signal lost” or “waiting for device”. It works fine on the ground and normally happens suddenly and midflight, so ability to take screenshots is limited.
Definitely had all green on the ground in configure tab (can provide it, but only in couple days). I tried to do a track replay, but somehow that didn’t work either this particular time, so I deleted it:( below screenshot is the best I can do I’m afraid…
I am using a classic PAW I had for some years now with software version latest before 31052022 release. I use a GPS mouse (Goes exactly on the dashboard of the PA28) and specially placed rubber bands, so that all dongles are kept tight in their slots always, so it is unlikely to be about loose connections. Device itself is “permanently installed” in a backpack (external antennas also). Could it be overheating because of sitting in a backpack pocket?
There are flights without dropouts completely. Most recent one with the screenshot had a few drops, but it restored itself quickly... there were cases though when waiting 2-3 minutes did not help and I had to switch to normal cellular connection.
Used iPadAir 4 with 14.4.2. But had similar issue in the past on other devices. Ensuring that all people onboard have their wifi networks disabled improved the matter (at least it seems so), but it does occur sometimes still.
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Got an installation image, but I don’t think there is much more you can do about ensuring clear sky view apart from placing it outside. I make use of the mouse magnet, so it snaps to a 2p coin:)
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Hi all
The SD messages are a little confusing
Waiting for device
This means no communication is happening, no messages are received, this usually means that the wifi is not established, or a power reboot issue
GPS …..
This means that messages are being sent to SD, but there is no satellite fix
If you are seeing broken track files, I suspect a hardware issue, either loss of power or a faulty RPI, or SD Card
I guess the main difference in flight is vibration and potential power glitches ?
Let us know how you get on with the new release
Thx
Lee
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Hi Lee,
Ok I definitely had the GPS message in SD. Waiting for device - I’m not sure actually- let’s assume I never had it in the air.
Vibrations unlikely to be a factor as PAW itself is inside a bag on the back left seat.
Power also seems unlikely as it takes a while for PAW to reboot, but the drops were quite brief
It doesn’t happen every time, which makes testing harder… so ultimately if SD card doesn’t fix it I shall buy a new unit? How could SD be an issue by the way ?
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Come on give us a clue.
Which version of Pilot aware are you running?
Sorry, Rosetta running 20220101. It was the "Waiting for device" message, and accessing the PAW web page from Chrome didn't work either, although the device wifi was reporting that it was connected to the PAW hotspot.
Flew again last weekend without any problems, although I am getting the "throttling" message frequently even though I am using the Anker PowerCore 10000 and juicebitz lead.
I've now upgraded to the latest version 20220531, and will let you know if it happens again.
Dave
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Thanks Dave. Throttling needs to be resolved first. The USB leads don't last for ever in my experiance. I would try another high quality one first, as short as you can. I have also seen the ADSB dongle draw excessive power due to failure(but still report traffic). They do get warm, but if hot may be worth swapping that out.
Cheers
Ian
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Thanks Dave. Throttling needs to be resolved first. The USB leads don't last for ever in my experiance. I would try another high quality one first, as short as you can. I have also seen the ADSB dongle draw excessive power due to failure(but still report traffic). They do get warm, but if hot may be worth swapping that out.
Cheers
Ian
Hi Ian,
I'm a bit disappointed that in the 3 years I've owned the Rosetta, and only done 40 hours flying in that time, that I've had to replace the USB lead already (and I am extremely careful with the use and storage of the same), and now looking at another lead and possibly an ADSB dongle too. How much will that cost? I don't want this to come across as over-critical, and the innovation of the product is excellent, but I'm disappointed with the execution of the hardware. Is it just me?
Dave
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Thanks Dave. Throttling needs to be resolved first. The USB leads don't last for ever in my experiance. I would try another high quality one first, as short as you can. I have also seen the ADSB dongle draw excessive power due to failure(but still report traffic). They do get warm, but if hot may be worth swapping that out.
Cheers
Ian
Hi Ian! Would you please be able to comment what are the options/solutions that I should try to fix the waiting GPS problem? Somebody else previously suggested it “could be hardware”, but that’s not giving a very good direction
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Hi Ian,
I'm a bit disappointed that in the 3 years I've owned the Rosetta, and only done 40 hours flying in that time, that I've had to replace the USB lead already (and I am extremely careful with the use and storage of the same), and now looking at another lead and possibly an ADSB dongle too. How much will that cost? I don't want this to come across as over-critical, and the innovation of the product is excellent, but I'm disappointed with the execution of the hardware. Is it just me?
Dave
Hi Dave. I have had my most reliable results with a Juicebitz 0.5m 20AWG cable. In my opinion 1m is too long. UGREEN is another supplier that I have good experiance with, but they do not specify the wire size and slightly more expensive. I have found JuiceBits cables don't last for ever and consider them as disposable. They deteriorate on calander time not usage or handling. Cannot comment of UGREEN yet as too new.
I cannot really comment on the quality of the parts. They are low cost Chinese imports and will vary in quality.
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Hi Ian! Would you please be able to comment what are the options/solutions that I should try to fix the waiting GPS problem? Somebody else previously suggested it “could be hardware”, but that’s not giving a very good direction
I don't have an immediate solution, but looking at the photo of you installation I can see potential issues that may be unrelated. Your two dipoles are too close to each other and both are too close to the GPS. They are both close to the GPS, which is looking for very weak signals and may swamp it with RF. The GPS also has limited view of the sky and needs to be as far forward as possible. I would also remove the magnet as that could upset your compass if it is in the usual PA28 location. There is no perfect place to install the dipoles, but I would suggest trying one on the other side of the screen and both a bit further(100mm to 120mm) from the 'A' pillar.
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not sure it is possible to place GPS mouse much further, but it is good 20cm now and 25-30 is probably best I can try... Could you please clarify what other side of what screen you referred to and what you meant by the pillar?
In general, I would be happy to give all your recommendations a go, but I am also quite puzzled by them as a normal Rosetta will have both antennas and GPS receiver much closer to each other within the main body and I guess your clients would expect it to work (subject to good placement of the GPS, which you can't make any better than the dashboard in an aircraft)
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Coming back to the OP Dave_Kent,
on Android please ensure all battery saver options are turned off, this will affect the WiFi performance.
But if you are seeing throttling - then there is an issue, and it is unclear what that issue could be.
It could be the power supply, the cable, or one of the devices pulling the power down.
Alex, if you can provide access to the track file - this should provide information about whether GPS was lost by the receiver
If it was not then it would have to be a WiFi issue
Can you provide the PilotAware Track file ?
thx
Lee
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Thank you! I will check. I remember trying to replay a file, replay not working and me deleting it… but it might have been a different one. Otherwise I’ll make sure to save the track if that happens again.
I’m actually quite keen to investigate the wifi matter as I have a feeling (and that one is super subjective) that whenever I replay I see more traffic in SD than in real life.
In general what would you recommend if find track files being perfectly ok? I have seen some recommendations in older threads to try use FLARM setting in SD instead of PAW due to it using TCP
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UDP is a better system for this type of data than TCP
TCP employs retries, totally useless in data that requires no latency
So I assume you connect using PilotAware
Are you using android or ios ?
What is your device ?
Thx
Lee
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Yes was always using paw setting. IPad air 4th gen
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I had seen the 'waiting for device' message appearing on my cheap Lenovo android device every few seconds and suspected it was a power problem based on messages in this Forum.
I replaced the battery pack and USB power cable.
The problem did not go away.
I then increased the PAW WIFI power to 100mW and the problem was solved.
The 'waiting for device' messages stopped and I was able to use the device.
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I had seen the 'waiting for device' message appearing on my cheap Lenovo android device every few seconds and suspected it was a power problem based on messages in this Forum.
I replaced the battery pack and USB power cable.
The problem did not go away.
I then increased the PAW WIFI power to 100mW and the problem was solved.
The 'waiting for device' messages stopped and I was able to use the device.
That is surprising, 100mw is very high power for something so close
Even flarm only use 25mw in their transmissions !
Thx
Lee
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Hi!
Just have been testing PAW at home, which I appreciate is the worst environment, but may be there is something about it... so, satellites view was 12, but view only 3.
I have done a full playback and was watching SD on iPad and Home page from laptop. "GPS signal lost" message on iPad happened couple times (only about for a second though), but Home Screen GPS status has always been green and satellites use never dropped below 3.
Track file available to download here: https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/00ajBHGmEW3fusWccY7G5PbNw#2022-06-09_15-14
Is there a manual re how to read it by the way?
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Is there a manual re how to read it by the way?
Upload to Aircrew and play it back by dragging the the white button at the bottom of the frame:
https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/ (https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/)
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Is there a manual re how to read it by the way?
Upload to Aircrew and play it back by dragging the the white button at the bottom of the frame:
https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/ (https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/)
did that as well actually... not skipped a bit there – at east the aircraft position was always visible... however in SD I got the message first time live and even in playback, which means probably that GPS drop was real?
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Hi!
Just have been testing PAW at home, which I appreciate is the worst environment, but may be there is something about it... so, satellites view was 12, but view only 3.
is the unit indoors ?
If so unlikely to get a good GPS, remember your iOS device is using location services, not only GPS - which is why it works indoors
I have done a full playback and was watching SD on iPad and Home page from laptop. "GPS signal lost" message on iPad happened couple times (only about for a second though), but Home Screen GPS status has always been green and satellites use never dropped below 3.
please try with the unit outside - or with a good view of the sky without windows containing metal coating
Track file available to download here: https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/00ajBHGmEW3fusWccY7G5PbNw#2022-06-09_15-14
Is there a manual re how to read it by the way?
Track file is for engineering purposes - not really user consumption
at no point does that track report a loss of GPS, look at the GPGGA / GPGSA messages
thx
Lee
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did that as well actually... not skipped a bit there – at east the aircraft position was always visible... however in SD I got the message first time live and even in playback, which means probably that GPS drop was real?
If there is no GPS loss in the PAW trackfile but there is in the SD version of it then you have to assume that SD lost its NMEA stream from the PAW or something similar, like the Wifi connection glitched.
As you say, testing GPS indoors is not the best, I assume that when you "went flying" on SD, you used the PAW GPS signal?
I see Lee has replied, so that's the real deal...
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Track file available to download here: https://www.icloud.com/iclouddrive/00ajBHGmEW3fusWccY7G5PbNw#2022-06-09_15-14
Is there a manual re how to read it by the way?
Track file is for engineering purposes - not really user consumption
at no point does that track report a loss of GPS, look at the GPGGA / GPGSA messages
thx
Lee
so, does that mean that GPS Lost message was likely caused by wifi drop? It would have made 100% sense, but the fact that I get it even in playback makes me doubt...
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Wifi drop would produce the message
Waiting for device
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Wifi drop would produce the message
Waiting for device
Sounds like back to square 1 without much idea What's behind the drop?
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Is the reported loss of gps during replay always reproducible?
If so, I should be able to reproduce this in the same way
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Is the reported loss of gps during replay always reproducible?
If so, I should be able to reproduce this in the same way
Yes, I was able to reproduce it couple times
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Just to be clear, at the same point in flight?
Thx
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Just to be clear, at the same point in flight?
Thx
indeed! I was curious about that, so checked twice to confirm