PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: falcoguy on June 03, 2021, 09:11:21 pm
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I have a classic pilotaware. I have been suspecting it is not receiving adsb. I have brought it home , to test powered by usb power off mains. The Home Screen adsb is red and says unavailable Rx =0 (+0)
Status says volt=warning, freq=ok, thro =warning, temp 48.7/46.5, em =0, sg=0.
I have also tried replacing the dongle with a new noodled dongle with the same result.
Does anyone have any ideas, and what the colours and rx etc means please.
I have also occasionally seen the adsb box go orange after landing and checking.
However, I am not seeing the adsb traffic my friends are
Help appreciated
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Sounds like your power supply is not up to the job.
You could try and run the unit with a higher rated PSU, and with/without the ADS-B dongle.
I would concentrate on getting the voltage warning cleared fist, before trying to fault find other isues...
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I have also tried replacing the dongle with a new noodled dongle with the same result.
I presume this was meant to be nooelec ?
If so this could be the cause of the voltage warning, for some reason, these draw a lot of power.
Can you check what the supply is you are using (spec details etc)
are you using the USB power cable provided
Thx
Lee
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Hi falcoguy,
To add some detail to the above comments and (hopefully) answer your specific questions.
1. Re the 1090 Status Indicator. Green means 1090 data is currently being received (+ figure increasing), Amber means no data received for something like the last 15 seconds - (so not unusual), Red means no data received since power-up - so there is either no 1090 traffic about, or you havea fault. The comment ‘Unavailable’ usually indicates no dongle present, or dongle is defective (or just not properly seated in USB port). Your initial post certainly implies that the original dongle has died, but it’s strange that you are getting the same effect with a replacement. Specifically, what model of NooElec are you trying as the replacement?
2. Reasons for failure to receive 1090 traffic are usually:-
No traffic in range.
Faulty (or poorly inserted) dongle.
Antenna or cable fault - this can be tested by temporarily replacing the antenna/cable with a short length of thin wire carefully
inserted into the centre only of the socket on the dongle (assuming there IS traffic about).
3. As advised above, your power issue may be due to your mains USB source being unable to maintain an adequate supply (it must be able to maintain a minimum of 5 Volts when the unit is drawing up to 2 Amps) or may be due to using an inadequately rated USB cable. (The supplied cables are rated with a heavy duty 20awg Power Wire, many readily available USB cables won’t meet this specification.)
Hope this helps. Please let us know how you get on.
Regards
Peter
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Thank you for everyone who is trying to help
The power supply is an apple 5.1V and 2.1amp. The cable is juicybitz about 0.75m
I have plugged in again today at home and plugged into a different extension cable got Voltage=OK
With the original adsb dongle I got 'unavailable'
Plugging in the new NOOELEC Nano 2 NESDR I suddenly got
Orange block/with Unavailable RX=168(+0)
Quickly checking the traffic I appeared to see a korean air? HEX 71C007 HL8007 with ModeC/S I believe.
Nothing since. With the minimal amount of aircraft in the air around home it is very difficult to test this thing out - well compared to when I built it.
Maybe there is a better ADSB dongle to fit - but I couldnt find any other recommendations
I am still not convinced its working - I certainly havent picked up any aircraft - even when I had it in the aircraft and I knew there were aircraft near me transmitting ADSB (SkyEcho). I know it has worked in the aircaft before. I am using a different GPS unit and ADSB aerial than in the plane for home testing
Any help or comments appreciated.
Id be so much happier if I could see a green ADSB box and see some traffic!
Subsequent to the above
I have been playing with the position of the Nooelec dongle in the usb ports. The voltage warning seems dependant on which USB port the dongle is inserted.
I now have no voltage warning and the ADSB dongle reading 'Connected' but am currently on Rx=0 (+0)
Just have to wait I guess?
Is there a better adsb dongle to buy that uses less power?
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Hi again falcoguy,
I think Lee was referring to some of the other (higher spec) NooElecs. The NooElec Nano2 should be OK as we have used these in Rosetta before.
When you say you are still seeing no traffic, where are you looking - on the PAW ‘Traffic’ Screen via 192.168.1.1, or are you talking about on your Nav App? (Screenshots would help let us see what is going on). Can you post a screenshot of your Home Screen and Configure Settings please.
Where exactly are you - and is the unit running inside? In weak signal or remote areas this can have an effect on reception depending on building construction and materials.
Your comment that the presence of a voltage warning is dependent on which USB port the SDR dangle is in seems strange. That certainly shouldn’t be the case and makes me wonder if there is an issue with the Raspberry Pi motherboard. Hopefully the requested screenshots will help identify what is going on.
Regards
Peter
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I am experiencing a similar problem to Falcoguy. On a trip south this week with a fellow pilot, I could see his PAW for about 5Km, and he could see me better (probably due to better aerial positions than me ), but I was picking up no C/S or ADSB signals. I have a spare mouse GPS dongle, and will try that, but any suggestions why this should have happened are welcome. I have attached home, configuration & traffic page screenshots.
Cheers
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Hi Bob,
Certainly nothing wrong with your GPS, but your Home Screen is showing a Power Supply issue (low voltage warning, which has been throttling the processor).
Although your 1090 SDR is showing as ‘Connected’, the unit is showing no recent 1090 traffic (1090 Status = xxxx (+0) and the only traffic on your Traffic screenshot is 3 x ATOM Ground Stations. There may of course just not have been any other P3i traffic about. This is also possible (though less likely) with 1090. Assuming there was 1090 traffic around, the most likely reason for it failing to display would be a dongle or antenna fault. You can easily test for an antenna fault by replacing the antenna/cable with a length of thin wire carefully pushed into the centre ONLY of the MCX socket (where the antenna cable plugs in). If you start seeing traffic, the problem is the antenna (or more likely the cable). If not, the dongle could be faulty, but you need to ensure that there was local 1090 traffic, by for example comparing with a tracking app such as Flightradar24.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter, I use a Charge 2 for power, and have an earlier screenshot from that day showing power ok, so I'll pursue the dongle & antenna question. Fortunately, I have a spare antenna from my early experiments. Unfortunately, my classic PAW is buried behind the panel (one of the disadvantages of a permanent installation). Maybe I'll take the opportunity of upgrading to a Rosetta, whilst I have it apart.
Cheers
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Hi Bob
might be worth contacting Jeremy Curtis regarding the Charge2
I recall there were some Charge2 devices with a firmware issue resulting in power problems,
he can give you instructions on how to obtain the info and fix this - if it is the case
Thx
Lee
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Hi Bob
might be worth contacting Jeremy Curtis regarding the Charge2
I recall there were some Charge2 devices with a firmware issue resulting in power problems,
he can give you instructions on how to obtain the info and fix this - if it is the case
Thx
Lee
The issue was some of the really early Charge2 units, from back in 2014/2015. If Bob can drop be either his serial number, order number, or postcode from the order I can look up the order.
The e-mail address is on the website.
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Thanks Peter, I use a Charge 2 for power, and have an earlier screenshot from that day showing power ok, so I'll pursue the dongle & antenna question. Fortunately, I have a spare antenna from my early experiments. Unfortunately, my classic PAW is buried behind the panel (one of the disadvantages of a permanent installation). Maybe I'll take the opportunity of upgrading to a Rosetta, whilst I have it apart.
Cheers
Jeremy is the expert and will correct me but you can connect a USB lead to some versions of the Charge 2 and it will talk to a laptop and tell you how much current is being taken.
I have tried this.
USB diagnostics. Program in use is PuTTY, 57600 baud, 8, N, 1.
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Thanks Peter, I use a Charge 2 for power, and have an earlier screenshot from that day showing power ok, so I'll pursue the dongle & antenna question. Fortunately, I have a spare antenna from my early experiments. Unfortunately, my classic PAW is buried behind the panel (one of the disadvantages of a permanent installation). Maybe I'll take the opportunity of upgrading to a Rosetta, whilst I have it apart.
Cheers
Jeremy is the expert and will correct me but you can connect a USB lead to some versions of the Charge 2 and it will talk to a laptop and tell you how much current is being taken.
I have tried this.
USB diagnostics. Program in use is PuTTY, 57600 baud, 8, N, 1.
The original charger versions have a terminal interface as @steveu shows above, the v2 units use a Windows management program to get the port status and manage profiles.
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The issue was some of the really early Charge2 units, from back in 2014/2015. If Bob can drop be either his serial number, order number, or postcode from the order I can look up the order.
The e-mail address is on the website.
Thanks Jeremy, e-mail sent.
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I thought my problem had been a temporary hitch, as some adjustments to the settings seem to bring the other traffic to being visible (whilst I was on the ground). However on a flight to Beccles yesterday, I could once again only see PAW traffic whilst in the air. After an offline discussion with Jeremy, I'm fairly convinced its not a power problem. Are there any diagnostics I can run on the track files. After rebooting to collect the track files when back at home base, I could once again see Mode C, S and ADSB traffic. I didn't screenshot the home page during the flight this time, but I had all green indicators, except for an Amber on the 1090 indicator.
Weird!
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Are there any diagnostics I can run on the track files. After rebooting to collect the track files when back at home base, I could once again see Mode C, S and ADSB traffic. I didn't screenshot the home page during the flight this time, but I had all green indicators, except for an Amber on the 1090 indicator.
Weird!
Yes, you need to take a track log out of the PAW, take it home and upload it to Aircrew. If you go to the main status page, then top right there is s button called "Tracks"and selecting that will allow you to see the track logs recorded on your PAW.
Find one where you remember the symptoms from the problem existing, download to your phone/tablet then when you have time, upload to Aircrew.
https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/ (https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/)
Should be self explanatory, I wouldn't tick the button marked "Public Flight" myself...
Grab hold of the white blob in the bottom section of the screen, and drag...
Aircraft your PAW spotted should show up as you drag along the timeline of your flight.
If you post back here Peter may be able to analyse further... or send the PAW people the track log file...
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Thanks Steve, but I know and have used the aircrew playback, but it doesn't show me anything more than I have seen in flight, i.e only the othe PAW aircraft are visible, no Mode C, S or ADSB aircraft, when I know some were around.
I'll happily send the trk file to PAW, if they think it could help isolate or identify the problem
Cheers
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Hi again Bob,
There is nothing in your settings (from your previous screenshots) which would point to a reason for a lack of received 1090 traffic - other than due to a faulty SDR or antenna/cable. Did you get a chance to check those?
Were you only ‘not seeing’ traffic on your display screen - or were you also checking the PAW traffic screen? (admittedly not easy or recommended if in solo flight)
Remind me what traffic /Nav display do you use? (I ask in case settings there might be relevant - the on screen display of ADSB traffic on SkyDemon for example is controlled by the settings in ‘Navigation’).
If you have the track file(s) from your recent flight(s), you could forward them (via support@pilotaware.com) and we can ask Lee to take a look at them - but from what I see and what you’ve said, I’m guessing they will simply confirm your reports that no 1090 traffic was received, though they might help point to or confirm the reason why. In the absence of anything to the contrary, my money is still on a faulty SDR or antenna - especially with an older Classic.
Best Regards
Peter
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Hi Peter,
Bob said, "I didn't screenshot the home page during the flight this time, but I had all green indicators, except for an Amber on the 1090 indicator."
Doesn't the amber indicate it's seen some ADSB traffic but not for a while? If it was red then it definitely sounds like a knackered dongle but, because it's amber, it sounds to me like the dongle might be working. In which case, it could possibly point to the settings of the nav software.
Possibly........ ;D
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Hi Paul,
Yes, I realised Bob hadn’t taken screenshots, but just wondered if he had looked at the Traffic screen as well as seeing the greens and the amber 1090 on the Home Screen during his last flight. That would help identify whether the issue is definitely with PilotAware as opposed to the Nav software/display settings - i.e. 1090 Traffic on Traffic Screen = A Working PAW. No traffic on Screen might just mean ‘No Traffic’ - though I think that unlikely.
You are correct, Amber indicates that the 1090 software is ‘running’, but has received no traffic over the last period of something like 15 seconds (or perhaps it is 5 - I forget the exact figure). That would certainly imply that the SDR wasn’t completely ‘dead’ or the indicator would show red, but the SDR might still be faulty - which would also account for the brief traffic reports referred to by Bob earlier and the fact that it seems to work for a short while after a reboot - or the problem could be with the antenna or cable.
It is of course possible that the problem could lie elsewhere, such as with the motherboard, software or with the Nav System - though other than extremely tight ‘show within vertically’ limits (which I’d like to think Bob would have checked for by now), I can’t think of what Nav Settings would prevent display of ANY 1090 Traffic. In any event, without access to all the facts as yet, it makes sense to eliminate the most likely issues first (in the absence of any evidence to the contrary it’s relatively quick and easy to try another SDR/antenna especially as these are known issues with some older PAW Classics).
Thanks for the prompts though, help is always appreciated :)
Hopefully Bob will clarify the position shortly and we can move forward.
Best Regards as Always
Peter
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Hi Guys, and thanks for the help. Peter, I'll take your advice and send my last track file to Support to see if further analysis will throw up anything. I did check the traffic page whilst in flight, which only showed PAW traffic. I had also opened up the parameters on the Nav display, so I should theoretically have seen everything detected. I use Skydemon for my navigation display, and know I am getting PAW gps from the "traffic ok" message on my Dynon Skyview display.
After my original post, I went to the airfield armed with my spare Rosetta (I bought it for an RV I am building when the EC offer was running), but tried my classic on the ground before disassembling my panel, and lo & behold, all traffic showed up. So I assumed a temporary glitch, took the lazy way out, and left everything as is. It was only on this latest flight that the problem reoccurred. The puzzling thing is why after a reboot when back on the ground, traffic reappeared.
I hate intermittent problems, they are so hard to track down, if only things operated in a work/fail way, life would be much easier. ::)
TIA for the help
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for clarifying the position. I’m with you on intermittent faults - they can be very challenging, especially when trying to diagnose the fault remotely 8). In this case, however, my money is definitely on the SDR - most likely overheating after a few minutes and giving up (consistent with your reports and I have seen a few do this in Classics as they get older). Although it involves a bit of work, you could swap in the one from your Rosetta which should prove the point. Don’t worry about the fact that the Rosetta SDR isn’t ‘cased’ as long as nothing metal is likely to touch it.
Let us know how you get on.
Best Regards
Peter
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Well Peter called this one correctly :)
Keith Vinning sent me another Dongle (FOC - thanks Keith).
I visited the airfield to try this yesterday. For once, the problem revealed itself as I hoped it would, in that when initially turned on my PAW showed all traffic, but after about 5 minutes, everything but PAW traffic disappeared. I think this fits in with the suggestion that a part is failing after warming up.
Anyway, I replaced the dongle with the one that Keith kindly sent to me, rebooted, and again all traffic became visible (CSAP). The good news is that it stayed visible through about 20 minutes running on the ground. As getting at my PAW involved removing the main panel (and I am always fearful of disturbing something else when I do this), I carried out a 20 minute test flight to ensure my panel was performing as expected, and again the unit worked well.
So I am fairly convinced that the Pilotaware Support team identified and resolved the problem.
Great job guys, thanks very much.
BobD