PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: captchaos on September 25, 2020, 01:57:07 pm
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Just upgraded to the new release very smoothly (via the updater app - nice option) and looking forward to seeing the the METARS uploads when near an ATOM station. My probably dumb question is can the METARS be passed to the EFB apps or is it only available in the PAW METARS table?
Many thanks.
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Yes they can, its on the todo list
Thx
Lee
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Excellent, that would be very helpful, ipad split screen notwithstanding.
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I didn’t get any METARs appear during a flight from EGHP to EGHE. Is there something I have to “switch on”?
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You should have received the METARs at EGHP, there is an ATOM station at Popham
To confirm you were looking on the Metar page, and the data list was empty ?
I attach the METAR reported by EGHP right now 15:15 28/09/2020
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All, managed to get a short trip out today to test the latest software release and also the METAR capability. The iOS App upgrade process was rapid and smooth and by far the easiest upgrade to date - definitely a positive!
Was on the South Coast so flew close to the PWSelsey ground station (see the SKD picture) and then took screen shots of the METAR page and also the Radar view as well. Working very much as expected and a tremendous upgrade in functionality. Well done to the whole team.
Integration to SKD would clearly ease the cockpit workload so hopefully that's feasible and on the roadmap somewhere (happy to BETA test if needed!).
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Yes I looked at the PAW home page and clicked on the METAR button. Just some small heading boxes and no reports. PAW was receiving traffic OK. Will see what happens tomorrow.
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It can time for them to arrive. I also always see more when on the ground close to our local ground station than I do when airborne.
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Ah, I was hoping to get them in the air.
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captchaos,
You will get them in the air, but it takes time for each Metar to upload from the Ground Station to your PilotAware, and also depends on there being a strong enough and reliable connection between the two during the upload period.
Regards
Peter
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Success, partially. On the return leg EGHE to EGHP I received a few METARs but only close to Popham. So at least my kit seems to work but it may be more of a coverage issue. I thought there were two ATOM station on the route to the west but may be they weren’t working. Hopefully more stations will be set up in the South West to support this new feature.
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Success, partially. On the return leg EGHE to EGHP I received a few METARs but only close to Popham. So at least my kit seems to work but it may be more of a coverage issue. I thought there were two ATOM station on the route to the west but may be they weren’t working. Hopefully more stations will be set up in the South West to support this new feature.
Sending you an email, let me have your ICAO code and I can see what visibility you have from the network and back again.
Can you describe your installation
- Aircraft type
- Antenna type and location
thx
Lee
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Lee, thanks for the quick response. Email sent.
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I haven’t had much joy so far with Metars. First try was when in the vicinity of Reading On Monday, no ground stations being picked up. Second was today, from Biggin to Cambridge return via London City overhead. First trip was with PAW mounted where I normally have it under back window of 182 in luggage bay. Second was on side window of PA31 over the wing a bit. How sensitive is positioning to ground station reception? Problem might be what’s good for GPS is bad for ground and vice versa.
Could someone remind me of a good link to show ground station network map/status? Thanks.
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Could someone remind me of a good link to show ground station network map/status? Thanks.
https://ognrange.glidernet.org (https://ognrange.glidernet.org)
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Hi Uptimist,
You can load your track into here
https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/
Antenna placement is critical to good performance.
Internal are good, but if shrouded by Metal and Water - this has an impact
External are best.
ye cannae change the laws of physics
Also PM your ICAO code to me and I can interrogate our database
thx
Lee
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Thanks for that. Slightly struggling to interpret the coverage map, but if I'm reading it correctly, there are active stations within at most about 20k from a route between Biggin and Cambridge, so slightly puzzled as to why I never got any reception.
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Hi Uptimist,
You can load your track into here
https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/
Antenna placement is critical to good performance.
Internal are good, but if shrouded by Metal and Water - this has an impact
External are best.
ye cannae change the laws of physics
Hi Lee - Hex code is 402BB7.
Understood on placement - but struggling to think how to place for good ground reception in cabin of a metal 182! External antenna not currently an option. But if I did have external, wouldn't it need to be sky-facing for GPS reception? Just wondering how you can get adequate GPS and ground reception at the same time. Sounds like others have done OK though, so there must be a way.
Also PM your ICAO code to me and I can interrogate our database
thx
Lee
Sorry, slightly bogged up that quote!
I was also using hex code F24A86 today on return from Cambridge to Biggin.
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Hi Uptimist
Could you please check that hexcode again.
We have never captured any data from that hexcode, which is almost unbelievable !
** reread **
OK, in the quote you say 402BB7, which we have masses of data.
on the 28/Sept, we tracked you from Redhill to Hawarden
We received just over 9158 Pilotaware position reports and 3125 ADS-B Position reports
You should definitely received uplink data.
Can you confirm
1. You have upgraded your PilotAware software to 20200916
2. You saw nothing listed on the page 192.168.1.1 / METAR, or
3. No METAR data was shown on the RADAR page
If the answer is yes to all the above, can I get a copy of your track file for the flight listed above
but struggling to think how to place for good ground reception in cabin of a metal 182!
I would not worry!
At times you were being simultaneously visible to 9 ATOM ground stations !!!!!
Thx
Lee
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Morning Uptimist,
I got the same results as Lee when I checked the PilotAware database last night (not surprisingly as it’s the same database), but my Pad gave out before I managed to post my findings. As Lee says, there are multiple PAW / ADSB reports for 402BB7 from 20200928 from 45 different ATOM Ground Stations at ranges between 10 and 95 Km, though not necessarily from both modes at all 45 sites (which is normal), but nothing whatever from F24A86 (which I presume to be a default ‘PAW Hex ID). This would therefore imply that for some reason either the F24A86 unit wasn’t transmitting - or you have given us the wrong Hex ID.
Checking the database again this morning, the reports for yesterday (20200930) for 402BB7 have now appeared from 11 different ATOM Ground Stations (this reporting delay is normal). Yesterday’s reports are however ALL PilotAware ONLY, which implies that the aircraft wasn’t transmitting ADSB-Out during yesterday’s flight.
As Lee has indicated, you should certainly have been able to see METAR reports on either the METAR or PAW RADAR screens via the 192.168.1.1 link for at least the majority of both flights (even allowing for a degree of dissimilarity between broadcast and receive range). This does make me wonder if you were looking for them in the right place or were expecting to see them appear on your (SkyDemon or other) Nav Screen? (No offense intended)
Best Regards
Peter
p.s. to avoid adding to the confusion, the PAW Public Release software version Lee refers to above should read 20200906 (not 20200916).
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Morning Uptimist,
I got the same results as Lee when I checked the PilotAware database last night (not surprisingly as it’s the same database), but my Pad gave out before I managed to post my findings. As Lee says, there are multiple PAW / ADSB reports for 402BB7 from 20200928 from 45 different ATOM Ground Stations at ranges between 10 and 95 Km, though not necessarily from both modes at all 45 sites (which is normal), but nothing whatever from F24A86 (which I presume to be a default ‘PAW Hex ID). This would therefore imply that for some reason either the F24A86 unit wasn’t transmitting - or you have given us the wrong Hex ID.
Checking the database again this morning, the reports for yesterday (20200930) for 402BB7 have now appeared from 11 different ATOM Ground Stations (this reporting delay is normal). Yesterday’s reports are however ALL PilotAware ONLY, which implies that the aircraft wasn’t transmitting ADSB-Out during yesterday’s flight.
As Lee has indicated, you should certainly have been able to see METAR reports on either the METAR or PAW RADAR screens via the 192.168.1.1 link for at least the majority of both flights (even allowing for a degree of dissimilarity between broadcast and receive range). This does make me wonder if you were looking for them in the right place or were expecting to see them appear on your (SkyDemon or other) Nav Screen? (No offense intended)
Best Regards
Peter
p.s. to avoid adding to the confusion, the PAW Public Release software version Lee refers to above should read 20200906 (not 20200916).
Thanks Lee and Peter for looking at this. The hex 402BB7 is my normal aircraft which I'm in 99% of the time. Yesterday I was PAX in someone else's aircraft which gave me the chance to play with PAW properly without having to focus on flying! I started off with the 402BB7 hex (but obviously no ADSB out), but then tried to change to the temporary one I was in and may have looked up/keyed the hex in incorrectly. I upgraded to the latest firmware version a few days ago, using the IOS updater, and confirmed upgrade successful.
Either way, I have not been able to see the Metars any time I've checked (which is only occasionally when I'm flying and frequently yesterday). I am looking at the PAW internal web page (192.168.1.1) on the Radar page to see whether ground stations showing, and Metar tab for those. The flight on 0928 was before the ugprade - I was on a Beta version from May which did have a Metar tab. I did the upgrade after that flight, so yesterday was on the new version. I've not yet seen any Metars show up (either on Metar or Radar page), and most of the time I get no ground station showing. For a few seconds occasionally yesterday I could see "ATOM 1" on the Radar page, but most of the time it was blank, which feels to me like my unit is just not picking them up for some reason, or I've been unlucky at the times I've checked.
I will fly again today if weather permits, so will have another crack, and see how that goes. Is the data recorded in the PAW track log? I.e. could I, on the ground, see when/where any ground stations were picked up after the fact? Is the ground station at Redhill operating? Is so, perhaps I could test on the ground there, as it's close by. Thanks for your help.
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... I was on a Beta version from May which did have a Metar tab
The BETA version would not work, as the format changed
Thx
Lee
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Hi again Uptimist,
Looks like Redhill is down at the moment. Checking on www.glidertracker.org I see there is an active PAW Station close by - ‘PWWHill’ just inside the M25 near Godstone, which seems to provide good coverage, so you should be able to see that. There are also several others in the same vicinity.
If you look on the Glidertracker site and switch on ‘RX’ (receivers) in Settings, you should be able to see all the ‘live’ PilotAware ATOM Stations as their names all start with ‘’PW’.
Hope this helps.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter. I flew again today and put the PAW unit stuck on the forward part of P2 side window near the cowling (C182), and it worked well, so I guess it’s really a question, as you suspected, of antenna positioning. Finding a good spot which has good view of sky (for GPS), ground (for ATOM) and around you (for traffic!) isn’t easy. That spot seems to work ok.
Cheers
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Hi Uptimist,
Thanks for the feedback. If you tell us what Hex ID were you using I can take a look and see where you were reported.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter. I flew again today and put the PAW unit stuck on the forward part of P2 side window near the cowling (C182), and it worked well, so I guess it’s really a question, as you suspected, of antenna positioning. Finding a good spot which has good view of sky (for GPS), ground (for ATOM) and around you (for traffic!) isn’t easy. That spot seems to work ok.
Cheers
Hi there can you describe exactly where you positioned the antenna for maximum range? Or possibly post a photo. I'm still trying to position the antenna in my c172.
Cheers
Patrick
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Morning Both,
There is a thread in the ‘Fixed Installation’ Section of the Forum with some information on installation in Cessnas, - which is mostly to do with the 172, though applicable generically to most of the Cessna family and similar types.
Permanently fitted external antennas will always be the ultimate in this type of (metal-bodied) aircraft, but options around the coaming or front right hand (P2) side can also be effective - as it seems can fitting in the rear window area, where such windows exist, though we would always advise maximising ‘visibility’ to the front because of highest closing speed with other traffic.
If using an ‘internal fit’ you need to find a position where the antennas are as near vertical as possible (pointing either up or down) and with as clear a view to the outside unobstructed by metalwork as possible, while keeping the body of the PAW (and hence the GPS antenna) as near horizontal as possible. If this latter part can’t be achieved, you should consider repositioning the GPS on a short USB extender to keep it horizontal, or replacing it with a ‘mouse type’ GPS which can be positioned in a more optimal site such as on the top of the coaming. While the unit may appear to work in a vertical orientation, GPS reception will be less than optimal, and may cause the PAW to stop working if it loses its GPS fix for a significant period it as it can’t operate safely if it doesn’t know its own position.
Regards
Peter
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@kurt37 sorry I don’t have a pic, and looks like Peter has some good tips on positioning. That said, what worked for me yesterday (c182) was mounted on a sucker mount on the piece of windscreen which wraps around from the front to meet the front pillar of the p2 door. So it’s just between the coaming and the door pillar. I mounted the whole unit vertically with aerials vertical too, so it’s tucked out of the way with battery in Map pocket, but note Peter suggests having the box itself horizontal for best GPS reception. I didn’t have GPS issues. My previous setup was sucker mount on he almost horizontal back window, which worked well for GPS and traffic but not for ground stations.
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Uptimist,
My comment was intended to promote ‘best practice’.
If flying ‘down south’ you will probably get away with the GPS being vertical on most occasions. Up here in Scotland less so - depending in both cases on the number / elevation and geographical position of ‘visible’ satellites and their relative attitude in relation to your PilotAware. The same principle of course applies to any portable EC unit. I would therefore expect that SkyEcho for example will have its GPS aligned to suit their recommendation to mount their unit vertically.
Regards
Peter