PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: MikeD on July 22, 2020, 02:10:24 pm
-
Hi,
PAW is not picking up PI only aircraft, it does pick up Flarm, ADS-B and MLAT. I've tried it next to a Ground Station (literally) and when the 'Display Ground Station' is enabled it doesn't show that either!
I'm suspecting the Bridge is faulty but cannot see on your site where I can buy a new one. I upgraded from a Classic last year but went the partial upgrade route so I am still using the original Classic bridge.
Mike Dunlop
-
Hi Mike
If the bridge is not working, it will not pickup flarm or mlat
Have you looked at the counters ?
Thx
Lee
-
Lee,
I'm not too sure of what you mean bu 'Counters'
Mike
-
Hi Mike
On the front web page there are a set of counters for rx tx of the different emission types
Thx
Lee
-
Lee,
See attachments. I have based my previous assumptions on analyzing the screen captures below.
PAW3.jpg shows the captured traces on Aircrew on the specific dates, it shows results for 'ALL' , 'Flarm' and 'MLAT' but NOT PAW.
PAW2.jpg is a screen capture of the in-flight 'HOME' screen.
The aircraft has a Flarm unit and a Transponder (as seen in PAW3.jpg).
I have also recently replaced the power supply with the recommended Anker 13000.
Mike
-
Hi Mike
If the bridge is not working, it will not pickup flarm or mlat
Have you looked at the counters ?
Thx
Lee
Does the bridge receive Flarm and MLAT?
I'm wondering if this is a failure of the RF connector on the bridge. Can you check the RF connector on the bridge all looks OK?
If it doesn't look right, I'll drop this link to a previous post here.... http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,1777.msg19318.html#msg19318
I've fixed a few. You're welcome to PM m some pics of the RF connector, normally obvious if there is a problem.
-
Hi Mike
If the bridge is not working, it will not pickup flarm or mlat
Have you looked at the counters ?
Thx
Lee
Does the bridge receive Flarm and MLAT?
Hi Jeremy,
I think Lee means as a rebroadcast from a Ground Station - which it should, if there is any Flarm or MLAT traffic about of course.
IIRC Mike also has (or at least had) direct Flarm Rx from an integrated Flarm Red Box (I can see the reference to the FTDI cable at the bottom of the Home Screen).
Hi Mike,
PAW2.jpg shows a fairly short session (35 minutes) during which your PAW appears to be transmitting P3i (assuming no antenna issues), but shows no P3i Rx. This could of course simply be down to no P3i traffic within range during the period you were monitoring.
PAW3.jpg only shows a 10 minute segment of the ‘flight’ with one 1090 ADSB aircraft, which is consistent with the data showing on the Home Screen. Unfortunately, the screenshot from Aircrew doesn’t show enough to see your actual position, though obviously somewhere near Stratford - Moreton in the Marsh (an area I know well from my Fire Service days). I presume therefore you were expecting to see the PWWilmcot Ground Station, which is just visible at top-left of the shot. If so, at what distance was it from you and what height were you at? Ground Stations are sometimes not visible close up due to topography or other physical obscuration such as buildings or trees, depending on your height and actual position at the time. Can you give us a bit more information, or post a track file on Aircrew as a public file and post a link here so we can take a look.
A screenshot of your PAW Configure Screen might also be helpful.
Regards
Peter
-
Thanks for the feedback. I've dismantled the unit and the RF looks good and solid. (PAW5.jpg)
PAW4.jpg shows a previous flight (19/07/2020) that shows MLAT and Flarm all the way around but not PAW. I fly from USK gliding club and on this flight I picked up the tugs transponder but NOT the gliders Flarm other than on my Flarm unit, in other words I seen the glider visually and on my Flarm but it didn't show up on PAW/SD.
One of the checks I've done was on my way home, I parked outside PWSHIREN ground station with the unit running, it didn't show up on SD.
Testing is difficult at the moment because not many aircraft about in my area.
Mike
-
Hi Mike,
Thanks for posting the photos. They certainly throw up a few issues.
Firstly, I’m confused - you say in your OP that you ‘upgraded from a Classic last year but went the partial upgrade route so I am still using the original Classic bridge.’ But your photo clearly shows a PAW Rosetta Bridge. The Classic Bridge doesn’t have the cutout for the 1090 antenna or the 5volt input and output points.
Secondly, you have a WiFi dongle plugged into Port 3, but you are running the unit on a Raspberry Pi3 which already has onboard WiFi - so you need to take that WiFi dongle out and reset that port (which is USB Port 3) to ‘Auto’ not 19,200 Baud.
Thirdly, you have Port 2 (the one below the GPS) - which is presumably where your FTDI lead goes - configured as ‘Auto’. For direct FLARM integration via the RS232 to USB lead, that port must be configured as ‘FLARM In’ at ‘19,200 Baud’.
As your GPS is now ‘internal’ (inside the Rosetta case), it would also be advisable to remove the case from the GPS to improve cooling.
GPS fix looks fine, but for the avoidance of doubt, please also confirm that the unit is mounted ‘right side up’ in the aircraft (i.e. with the GPS antenna uppermost and where it has a clear view of the sky).
Oh - and yes, the SMA RF connector looks fine.
Finally, please remember that the depiction of known position targets (ADSB, FLARM and MLAT) on SD is determined primarily by your vertical altitude filters in SkyDemon/Navigation Options/Show within Vertically. If you have this set too tight, you won’t see any of the above traffic outside that height above or below your current altitude.
Please let us know if the situation improves after making these changes.
Regards
Peter
-
Peter,
Many thanks for the info. I've now changed configured it as per your instructions, all I need now is good weather and time to try it out.
I mentioned a partial upgrade to Rosetta, what I really meant was I didn't get a brand new unit, I got the new case and the bridge with a few other bits last year and have only had chance to use it a few times so obviously I made some errors in upgrading.
Once again, many thanks.
Mike
-
Hi Mike,
Making mistakes is easy - we're only human. Hopefully we have got to the bottom of what has been going on - or if not, at least we're a few steps further along the way. That's what we're here for.
I hope you get a chance to test fly soon - I'm planning to go out myself tomorrow to test some new software.
Please let us know how it goes when you do get to fly and come back to us if you need any more help.
Best Regards
Peter
-
If I may use this thread PAW not working
Every 3rd or so power up I get the message that the P3I is unavailable. GPS is available. After rebooting or sometimes even unplug and plug the devices at the back of the Rosetta it seems to work again.
+ Even though all power parameters show OK, does that means everything is working fine? I have the feeling that while powering with one usb cable the P3I unavailable Problem is much more frequent. (although all parameters are ok).
Is that problem power related and known?
-
Hi Patrick,
Adequacy of power supply and quality of power cables are both paramount in avoiding 'brown outs' or unwanted reboot issues with PAW.
The power supply must be able to maintain 5 volts when drawing up to 2.1 amps, and the USB power cable should use a minimum of 20AWG wire for the power wire inside the cable and should ideally be no longer than 1 metre (though you can sometimes get away with a longer cable where both the cable and power supply rating and quality are beyond doubt).
Even with these standards, it is not unknown for PAW to shut down and reboot during engine start if the aircraft battery voltage drops significantly, so we always advise checking the PAW and WiFi connection to your tablet or display as part of routine pre-takeoff checks after engine start.
I take it you are talking about a message on SkyDemon? Next time this happens, can you take a screenshot and post it so we can see the exact message (though presumably in German).
Regards
Peter
-
It's a message on the Rosetta page. https://ibb.co/4KNFj0T (https://ibb.co/4KNFj0T)
Log file just when P3I becomes Unavailable.
https://ibb.co/S0Wd3wG (https://ibb.co/S0Wd3wG)
And here is a screenshot of the log file after it failing
https://ibb.co/XpR6nfF (https://ibb.co/XpR6nfF)
+ It repeatedly says awaiting radio start.
It mainly happens shutting down the Powerbank per button and then rebooting it from the powerbank button.
It also seems to happen when there is no gps? I guess that's a high load scenario.
When unplugging and plugging it in again it never fails. I wonder if it has something to do how to modules power up. What do you think?
Do you have any suggestions for a suitable 10cm 90 degrees micro usb (to usb A) cable?
-
+ once the P3I is unavailable only a reset will help it won't cure itself.
-
Morning Patrick,
The easy bit first - P3i will show red and won’t transmit until the GPS gets a fix because up to that point the unit doesn’t know where it is, so trying to tell others would be meaningless, but that isn’t the problem here.
Your P3i is reporting ‘Unavailable’. My first thought was ‘had the Bridge board become dislodged from the Motherboard during transit to Germany’, but reading on, your P3i problem seems to be related to your power source.
Most power blocks are designed to charge phones and tablets, not to provide continuous power at up to 2 amps, which PilotAware can require. The fancy so called ‘intelligent’ power blocks are the worst in this respect from the PilotAware point of view, as they often see this high power draw as a fault and automatically restrict the supply further, causing the unit to shut down. This would normally show on the Home Screen as a Voltage Error and/or Throttling of the processor, but you have taken the screenshot immediately after power-up so this hasn’t had time to show. What power bank are you using?
If powering from a powerbank, PilotAware recommends the ‘simple’ Anker powerbanks such as...
https://aax-eu.amazon.de/x/c/QhvqBKb4w9swpfndbKuwlWkAAAFzhQnSOAMAAAH2Abiz-Dw/https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B00VJT3IUA?pf_rd_p=d51695e5-42da-4d0e-af4d-eb46295bba24&aaxitk=Fieklm1nFl6d8ChoFhCvag&hsa_cr_id=5547371870802&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_mcd_asin_1
or...
https://www.amazon.de/Anker-PowerCore-Powerbank-Tragbares-Technologie-Schwarz/dp/B00Z9UY65G/ref=sr_1_11?crid=CIYF47RGPHNT&dchild=1&keywords=anker+powercore&qid=1595666130&s=ce-de&sprefix=Anker%2Celectronics%2C248&sr=1-11
Which are tried and tested by the Team and have proved reliable over many years. Alternatively, to power the unit from your aircraft, the excellent EASA approved power supplies such as the Charge2 or Charge4 produced by Jeremy Curtis... https://charge4.harkwood.co.uk/ are highly recommended.
I suggest change your power source and let’s see if that cures the problem.
Best Regards
Peter
-
I am using this powerbank, since it is very small
,https://www.amazon.de/dp/B082V3G8LC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Md.gFbTDTRAV5 (http://,https://www.amazon.de/dp/B082V3G8LC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_Md.gFbTDTRAV5)
I think it's the cable though, I have ordered shorter juicebitz usb micro usb cables.
Even after running 10 min there are no warnings. Like I say it's only when pressing the Powerbank on off button the P3I becomes unavailable. When unplugging it never fails. So it for sure must be the powersupply. I will try the other cable and/or an anker powerbank and post the results.
-
Hi again Patrick,
As I suspected - an ‘intelligent’ powerbank phone charger, which will be great for what it’s designed for but not great for powering PilotAware (or similar devices). I don’t think changing the power cable will make any difference - assuming you are using the cable supplied with Rosetta - as it was chosen specifically to ensure reliable power feed when used with the correct power source.
If powerbank size is an issue, I (and others) have also used this smaller Anker powerbank perfectly satisfactorily for ‘day trips’...
https://www.amazon.de/Anker-PowerCore-leichtere-Powerbank-Smartphones-Schwarz/dp/B019GJLER8/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=anker+10000&qid=1595701193&sr=8-3
...so also highly recommended.
Regards
Peter
-
I am actually using another cable with two 90° males, again to save space. I have tried at least a dozen of cables, and like many of you I'm sure I made the same experiences. 75% of the cables show constant volt errors. The cable I have shows volts and throttle ok. I noticed yesterday after 20 min of running this cables also gives a volt warning. It doesn't appear that often, compared with the other cables though. Everything seems to working normal however, even the p3l unavailability is gone. I just have the feeling the GPS fix isn't working as good/fast.
However I am going to revert back to a juicebitz (50cm, shortest they have with a 90° male) and to an anker powerbank and post the results. I guess the intelligent anker powerbanks are also not to be recommended?
(With poweriq?)
Kind regards,
Patrick
-
Patrick,
I have no personal experience of the newer - ‘intelligent’ Anker powerbanks, but doubts have been expressed by others about some of their more recent ‘slimline’ ‘intelligent’ models ability in relation to powering units such as PilotAware. As I have said already, they are designed to fast charge electronic devices over a very short period, not to power them long-term.
All I can say is that I have personally used all 3 of the Anker powerpacks I have recommended above for several years with complete reliability as have many other PAW users. As I now have more than one of each (3 of the 20100) I have no need or desire to buy others just to ‘experiment’.
Best Regards
Peter
-
Normal usb data cables are not suitable for pilotaware
These do not have sufficient characteristics for current draw
This was the reason for adding the voltage check/error
Thx
Lee
-
And taking about power supplies, what is an acceptable time for a GPS fix? I have 5min (cold or warm start doesn't matter oddly enough)
-
And taking about power supplies, what is an acceptable time for a GPS fix? I have 5min (cold or warm start doesn't matter oddly enough)
The speed of initial fix may be influenced by clear or less satellites view. Where are your PAW positioned? Do you start it inside the hangar?
-
Hi Patrick,
5 minutes to GPS fix sounds a bit long - except perhaps for initial fix on first powering up the unit after shipping to Germany (unless it’s inside a hangar). Pretty sure it’s not anything to do with power supply.
If we are talking about the Cessna and you have the Rosetta mounted under the coaming behind the dashboard (as you indicated in the other thread), I’d say much more likely to be due to shielding. Either that or you have Rosetta mounted upside down so its own circuit board is obscuring the GPS antenna.
Regards
Peter