PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: kevkdg on June 13, 2020, 08:33:52 pm
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Hi,
I have a Pilot Aware Classic. I would like to enclose it a new Stratux case rather than pay out again for a Rosetta.
Has any one done this, if so do you have a link to the particular Stratux case/box you used and any tips? I have the Classic bridge still and the Pi2.
Couple of other queries:
The supplied PAW Classic rtl-sdr dongle gets very hot.... I have tried to source a stratux low power rtl-sdr v2, but cannot find stock anywhere. Has anyone managed to source a similar low powered one that runs cooler? If so any links please. I'm not keen on enclosing the PAW in a new case with this hot running dongle.
Final query, I am looking at either the NooElec 3dBi or 5dBi 1090MHz antenna, I know the 5dBi is longer and therefore guess it offers greater range as an aerial (as PAW only receives ADS-B) , but any recommendations would be great. The length is not an issue as the 5dBi is a similar length to the Pilot Aware signal antenna.
I shall post this on the Pilot Aware forum too, but have registered and am awaiting approval, been a few days now!
Thanks
Kevin
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Kevin Hi!
I have done exactly what is crossing your mind.
The Case I used was as follows: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XSGHKFP/?coliid=I2RGZUOAVYQ7U1&colid=T0NKVZWFDAJ2&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
Unfortunately is out of Stock in 'clear'! It can be found in Black and White at:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ADS-B-Raspberry-Stratux-Finish-Assembly-Black/dp/B06XS1F645/ref=sr_1_2?adgrpid=52112193486&dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw8pH3BRAXEiwA1pvMsdztbFaR9EudnJTfk7NE_DSYxB96QT0mFvEwFumkjHY_V8l-MjC0eRoCDxkQAvD_BwE&hvadid=259138173835&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=1007068&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=9203242145225061228&hvtargid=kwd-295507780030&hydadcr=25505_1820373&keywords=stratux+case&qid=1592079829&sr=8-2&tag=googhydr-21
When I received mine it was my aim was to make all connections to Case from external connection.
That meant odd fittings needed. The GPS is connected that way. The ADS-B receiver does get hot. I removed mine from its Dongle and then the aerial is connected via external connection.
Tell you what. My PAW is installed in the aircraft out of sight. I will try any and get a photo for you tomorrow.
Final Words tonight. It is working very well!
Photo to come.
Gerry
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i’m sure that the PilotAware.com shop can supply low power SDR dongles. Purchased one to augment my OGN-R some months back. Perhaps Ashley can confirm?
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Hi Kevin,
I used the Stratux V2 case (also available from Amazon). It’s a bit dearer, but there’s more space inside for the Bridge.
N.B. If using the old bridge, be aware that the antenna ‘holes’ pre-marked in the Stratux cases don’t exactly match the SMA position on the Bridge, so you will need to drill / file one out to suit your existing Bridge. The newer Rosetta Bridge also has a cut-out at the opposite side to accommodate the female SMA fitting for the 1090 Antenna. You won’t be able to fit the SMA for the 1090 antenna in this position, but can get round this by fitting the SMA Connector through the cutout below the RPi at the 1090 side. You will of course need a SMA Female to right angle Male MCX cable to connect through to the SDR.
WRT the 1090 antenna itself, I would suggest using the 3dBi one - too much gain could play havoc with the preset triggers for the Bearingless Mode C / S Alerts and the longer antenna also might partially block transmission / reception of P3i signals in some installations.
Let us know how you get on.
Best Regards
Peter
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Kevin
Photo as promised. Not a wonderful rendition though.
The PAW is a external connector out to Aerial via just long enough RG400. From Ground I get 15km range.
The ADS-B is same configuration but with RG58 to a very short aerial on Aircraft top skin. No problems out to 100km easily.
The GPS Dongle is situated at my open cockpit windshield and connects through USB to USB inline connector.
Its rough and ready but works very well.
Power is via Charge 2. That also supplies iPhone XR running Skydemon App.
I deliberately kept 12V supply separate to Yaesu 550. That uses a 12V to 8.4V Regulator Unit.
Couldn't wheel out aircraft so flash photo.
Hope it helps.
Regards
Gerry
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Hello,
@Mig29fuk and @Mig29fuk many thanks for your replies.
I am torn now between the V1 and V2 case.... Do both of them need some manual "drilling" of holes for aerials?
Still not clear on whether to get 3dbi or 5dbi antenna for 1090.
Cheers
Kevin
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Kevin
Some holes will need drilling.
Its not a big issue, especially with clear plastic version!
Having all connections made externally just helps set up PAW for a more permanent fitment.
Regarding 1090. I use the aerial provided with ADS-B Dongle, cut it to about 3 inches at most and poke through insulated hole in aircraft skin.
I get scores of ADS-B traffic up to 150km.
At my sedate 75 knots any traffic notified with 5 miles excites me! Never look beyond that!
Regards
Gerry
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Kevin
Not sure if it is of use but here's a picture of my PAW Aerial position. Works well!
Gerry
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Hi again Kevin,
There isn’t really that much difference between the Stratux Mk1 and Mk2 cases - just that the Mk2 is slightly deeper. Both come with fan(s) (2 with the V2 case) but these aren’t needed (I did run one while testing a twin SDR Setup a while back, during some development, but it wasn’t really necessary even with the 2 x SDRs).
With both versions of the case, the antenna mounting holes are only part formed. They can be ‘broken out’, but this is a bit drastic and runs the risk of breaking the case. It’s much easier to drill a slightly smaller hole through the knockout then file it out to a good fit / position for the Bridge SMA connector. (This has to be done when assembling the Rosetta.) The hole for the 1090 antenna isn’t so critical WRT position - as long the chosen position keeps any connector clear of the Bridge.
I have already suggested using the 3DBi antenna for 1090 rather than the higher gain 5DBi one. 1090 signals are very strong (compared to P3i or FLARM). They are easily picked up from up to 100+ miles or more in the air, so high gain antennas aren’t necessary and could upset the audio and visual alert triggers for Mode C / S, which were developed and determined using the standard PAW antennas. Alternatively, you could adopt Gerry’s solution and re-use the antenna from your Classic, shortening the cable at the antenna end (not the plug) if necessary. There are posts on here showing you how to do so.
Best Regards
Peter
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Thanks for all your replies.
I suspect the v2 case will be better.
I will order the nooelev 3dbi aerial.
With regards to the case, any real benefit to white over black as I read somewhere it gets less hot. I assume this means if in the sun.
OR is a clear case better for seeing the flashing status lights as I assume you might not be able to see those with white or black v2 case.
Will a NooElec NESDR Nano 2 (only available in packages with other stuff o Amazon) OR the later NooElec NESDR Nano 2+ (can only find this one sold on its own on Amazon) be a worthwhile investment and run cooler than the stock classic SDR or does removing it from the plastic case as suggested really help?
Cheers
Kevin
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Kevin
Get clear Plastic case if you can. It does show RPI status. Also easy to line up any connections sockets for drilling.
My ADS-B is standard Dongle from early days, did get hot. Its still proper warm but survives 90 minute flights.
Connecting it to a socket ready for exterrnal connection is via thin lead. Does this dissipate some heat?
I have NO Fan installed.
You will need some of this stuff to transition connectors from encased RPi and Bridge to allow external connections.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/b/MCX-Male-SMA-Female-Radio-Communication-Coaxial-Cables-Connectors/48704/bn_7026452826
You are almost there!
Gerry
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Kevin,
Standard Rosetta cases are (as you probably know) black. There are some reported advantages in using a white case to reflect heat, which is of interest primarily if your unit is semi-permanently mounted on top of the coaming in full sun (mine is inside my pod). As per Gerry’s latest post, the clear option makes aligning the holes for the Bridge and 1090 antenna easier and the PAW LEDs will be much more visible if you need to check them for diagnostics (see the full Operating Manual...
https://pilotaware.com/Documents/Operating%20Instructions%2020190621.pdf?_t=1561197960
On the question of SDR’s, if your old one is still working, it should continue to do so, but if you want to change it, the original Rosettas were fitted with a ‘Stratux Low Power SDR’, but the newer models use a NooElec Nano 2. I personally have no experience of the Nano 2+.
Re-checking Amazon, while the Nano 2 kit is more expensive than the (untested by me) Nano 2+, it is a known entity and the kit includes 2 dongles, 2 of the SMA to MCX connecting cables and both 3 DBi and 5 DBi versions of 1090MHz antenna plus a few ‘extras’, which might be of use later - so on balance it’s a reasonable buy - especially if you know of anyone else looking to go down the same route.
Best Regards
Peter
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Many thanks again chaps.
V2 Case arrived today. Using the old end piece of the classic case as a template managed to drill a neat 7mm hole which has turned out to be spot on position wise. I have then drilled out the pre-blanked hole for the 1090 antenna too.
However, no screws came with the case to secure the Pi.... which is annoying as i have no idea what screw size to get!
So, next steps are to get some screws, although not sure what size/type.
Do I remove the plastic casing from the nooelec nano 2 SDR dongle? Or just leave it (assuming it doesn't get too hot).
I may upgrade the Pi to a 3B or 3B+, I assume this will not affect the position of the Aware Bridge and antenna?
There are two fans in the case, one is USB powered, the other has a two pin connector, though not sure where to connect that on the Pi, or as above do I just do away with the fans... I guess they use power and if serving no purpose is a waste of battery.
Cheers
Kevin
Cheers Chaps
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Hi again Kev,
Many thanks again chaps.
V2 Case arrived today. Using the old end piece of the classic case as a template managed to drill a neat 7mm hole which has turned out to be spot on position wise. I have then drilled out the pre-blanked hole for the 1090 antenna too.
Good work!
However, no screws came with the case to secure the Pi.... which is annoying as i have no idea what screw size to get!
So, next steps are to get some screws, although not sure what size/type.
You shouldn’t need to screw the Pi in place. Once the Bridge is in place it should just slot in place and be held by the upper case.
Do I remove the plastic casing from the nooelec nano 2 SDR dongle? Or just leave it (assuming it doesn't get too hot).
I’m sure the Rosetta’s still have the case on the NooElec -Ash, can you confirm?
I may upgrade the Pi to a 3B or 3B+, I assume this will not affect the position of the Aware Bridge and antenna?
Definitely worth upgrading to a Pi3 as it will be much faster, removes the need for an external WiFi dongle (it’s onboard on the Pi3s) and adds Bluetooth audio output. Lee has recently recommended the 3B (which is standard in Rosetta) over the 3B+ as it draws less power, though I have been running a 3B+ for well over a year in one of my test units without any noticeable issues. Mind you, mine is powered by one of Jeremy Curtis’s ‘Charge 4’ aviation power supplies.
There are two fans in the case, one is USB powered, the other has a two pin connector, though not sure where to connect that on the Pi, or as above do I just do away with the fans... I guess they use power and if serving no purpose is a waste of battery.
The 2 pin connector normally fits onto two of the pins on the 40 pin GPIO connector, but in our setup all the pins are taken up by the Bridge. I could check the PIN numbers for you, but as you’d need to solder the leads to the top of the pins on the Bridge (definitely not recommended). If you did get any heating problems you could plug the USB fan into a spare USB port, but this is very unlikely to be necessary.
Best Regards
Peter
p.s. If you do change the board, you will need to contact Ash (support@pilotaware.com) and ask him to transfer your licence as it is tied to the 12 digit MAC address of the Raspberry Pi. He will need your name, email and the old & new MACs.
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Thanks Peter,
I'll not bother with the m2.5 screws :-)
Fitting the 1090 extension cable, do both the washers (flat and sprung) go on outside of case, I'm guessing they do.
I'll keep my eyes open for a 3B.....
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Hi Kev,
I normally fit the sprung locking washer on the inside. There is normally a slight gap between the board and the case and the washer acts as a spacer so that tightening the nut (it doesn’t need to be overnight) doesn’t put undue pressure on the board.
Oh... and no - swapping to a Pi3 doesn’t alter the position of the Bridge or antenna. (Forgot to say that in my last post)
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter. Regarding the washer, are you talking about the pig tail extension for 1090 or adding a washer and bolt to the antenna connector that extends from the paw bridge. Didn't have one in classic case. But I have spare washers and nuts.
On my pig tails there a normal washer and a spring washer. I assume you have sprung washer on inside and normal on the outside followed by the nut. There does appear to be a cut out on the inside of the case to support the fixed nut on the pig tail to stop it turning as you tighten the external nut up, so not sure the sprung washer would work on the inside.
I notice fro this thread:
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,1109.15.html
That as per the photos, the chap has mounted the 1090 SMA connector through the knockout hole in the top of the case which is almost level with the PAW Bridge. I have punched through the one below (underneath the Pi). Hopefully that's the right one.
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Hi again Kev,
Sorry for the delay getting back to you - I got sidetracked. Re your last post(s)...
‘star’ ‘shaker washer’ - it depends what you are fitting it to. They are designed to stop the socket shaft turning as you tighten the nut and potentially twisting the cable, so on a flat panel it could go inside or outside. With the Stratux/Rosetta cases there are - as you say - plastic hex mouldings on the inside to hold the socket in place, so you can either fit the shaker on the outside, then the plain washer/nut or simply discard the shaker. I have in the past used a shaker (or plain washer(s)) as a ‘packer’ between the Bridge and case to prevent overtightening of the nut twisting the Bridge and putting a strain on the GPIO pins. That’s what I was referring to above, but that’s probably overkill on my part.
Yes, you can remove the case on the SDR - always worthwhile to maximise cooling when it’s inside an outer case, - just be careful not to short anything out if poking about inside later with anything metal.
If you look closely at the photos in the thread you have linked to, you will see (from the end-on pic) that Mike has actually fitted his 1090 antenna to a hole above his ‘Classic’ Bridge. The ‘Rosetta’ Bridge was actually redesigned with a cutout to allow the 1090 antenna socket to be fitted ‘in line’ with the Bridge (I’ll post a pic later for you) - but these are not available to purchase separately.
Hope this helps clarify these issues.
Best Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter,
All up and running.
Got confused with the washer types, so on the 1090 antenna, I have no washers inside the case, on the outside of the case I have the star washer with "teeth" pointing outwards away from the case, then the spring washer then the nut.... probably very much overkill and only need the nut in reality.
For the P3i antenna, I have simply hand tightened the nut on the outside of the case to offer a little support. I didn't dare tighten it with a spanner for fear of twisting the bridge or pulling it towards the case.
I went with your recommendation, and the 1090 antenna is mounted on the lower pre-drilled hold below the Raspberry Pi board rather than as Mike did and use the top hole above the PAW bridge as that looked a little tight to the PAW bridge.
Incidentally, can the Classic PAW bridges be purchased as I was hoping to make up another one.
Cheers
Kevin
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Couple more images, second one down shows I used the star and spring washer on the 1090 mount... since learnt that's probably not required..
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Having used the bottom hole beneath the Pi board for the 1090 gives the option of orientating the antennas as per the last photo in this post, which would not be possible if using the hole above the PAW Bridge. Although they might be too close together this way, I've not tried it... but they are fairly close any which way round you have them.
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If it helps others, I used the old Pilot Aware Classic Case end plastic piece to orientate against the new Stratux V2 case (with white masking tape stuck on it) in order to mark the position of the hole to be drilled for the Pi3 Antenna. I used a 7mm HSS Drill Bit - started off with smaller bit for pilot hole and worked my way up the sizes to 7mm.
The slot for the SD card on the old classic case and the new Stratus v2 case were slightly offset from each other (as noticeable in the photo). This is just how it was after spending some time orientating it with the Pi and PAW bridge in situ in the new v2 case (with cover off) and then sliding the old classic case end piece over the Pi3 antenna mount. So it's where it should be :-)… at least on mine anyway.
Unlike Mikes Stratux V2 mod posted here:
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,1109.15.html
I did not have to file any case locating lugs, I don't have FLARM, and I didn't bother drilling holes to view the PAW Bridge lights. If needed I can see them by looking into the side air vents.
As a final note, I removed BOTH fans from the Stratux v2 case as from reading what others have said they don't have too much if any impact. I figured rather than leaving the fans in situ albeit disconnected I would remove them to allow more space for air flow.
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Hi Kevin,
Thanks for posting the photos. You’ve done a very tidy job and it should work well.
PilotAware used to sell Classic Bridges with a 1st year licence to allow early home builders to convert their ‘pre-Classic’ home builds to the full ‘Classic’ spec, but that was an early adopter deal which stopped with the introduction of Rosetta two years later.
If you are thinking about a second unit you can of course buy a Rosetta, but be quick as the price is due to increase significantly from the end of the month.
Best Regards
Peter
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Thinking of buying the Rosetta GPS dongle for use in my DIY upgrade. Any ideas if this is a better choice over the Classic GPS dongle?
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it uses a higher gain ceramic antenna.
so will perform better when in poor conditions (as compared to smaller antenna)
Thx
Lee
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New Rosetta GPS dongle as ordered from pilotaware shop arrived today. Trying it in my conservatory already noticed much improvement. Cheers