PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: Uptimist on May 26, 2020, 09:37:35 pm
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I have a PAW Rosetta. IPad Pro running Skydemon (both up to date).
Every so often during flight the iPad shows “Waiting for device” and I lose position information.
Often it reconnects automatically after a moment. Sometimes it takes longer, and I resort to kickstarting it by hitting “stop navigating” then “go flying” again, and it reconnects, which is less than ideal if during a critical phase of flight.
Today I tried running two tablets together - cheap Android (Samsung Tab) and the IPad.
I got the disconnects on the iPad but not the Android tablet.
This has been happening for some time, and previously very helpful PaW support have soldered the power cable in (to eliminate loose usb connection as cause).
I have connection type set to Pilotaware(UDP).
I also tested at home, and it never drops out With IPad sitting on the kitchen table, And PAW 20ft away in the garden. Could it be something to do with the aircraft environment, but why specific to IPad?. Maybe because IPad is also maintaining Bluetooth connection to GTN750 audio...could it be struggling to do both things at the same time? I guess I could try without the GTN connection to see if that makes a difference, I can’t remember whether I’ve done that before and still had the issue.
I can supply track logs from today’s flight if that would help,
Many thanks
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Sounds like the bluetooth may be possible
Impossible to test at home unfortunately?
Thx
Lee
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Hi,
The ‘Waiting for Device’ message on SKyDemon clearly indicates a connectivity issue between the devices. You say you have the connection type set to PilotAware (UDP) - is that on both devices, or is the connectivity setting in PilotAware/Config still on ‘Auto’? That can cause the effect you are seeing. Worth checking. This should be set to the same as you are using in SD.
Regards
Peter
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I have my iPad with a Bluetooth connection to my David Clark headset and there are no such problems.
Based on no technical expertise at all, I'm off to Ladbrokes to put my bet on it being a power issue (brown out). Is the power supply in the aircraft the same as it is when it's on the kitchen table?
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I'm having the same problems as Uptimist however, I also have an error message that appears when navigating across the tabs in the 192.168.1.1/config.cgi page. When changing between tabs e.g. Home – Configure – Logging – etc. I will get the following Tab error message “Method Not Implemented” and “HTTP Request Method Not Supported” at which point the progress bar stops moving across the page and my Samsung Tab S2 “hangs” for ad infinitum.
During flight and using the latest installation of SkyDemon, I get a similar error message to Uptimist “Waiting for Location Data” at which point I have to restart SkyDemon navigation and use “Location Services” and not “PilotAware”.
During my latest trip I had to restart the PAW 3 times before giving up and reverting to SkyDemon “Location Services”. My PAW classic is using the latest software update (20190621) and my licence was renewed recently and now expires 20210428.
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there seems to be a few anecdotal stories on Android web browsers
Which web browser are you using on android ?
Can you confirm that your android device has ALL battery saving options disabled
This is known to mess up the WiFi connection
thx
Lee
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there seems to be a few anecdotal stories on Android web browsers
Which web browser are you using on android ?
Can you confirm that your android device has ALL battery saving options disabled
This is known to mess up the WiFi connection
thx
Lee
Hi Lee - it's the Android one which is OK, it's the ipad I'm having problems with.
@PaulSS - yes, power seems to be a very common theme, but then not sure why it remains to connected to Android tablet while disconnected from iPad. Interesting to note you're running ok with both bluetooth to DC and wifi to PAW concurrently. I suppose the only way for me to rule this out definitively is try flying again with bluetooth off and see if it goes away.
@exfirepro - I'm not sure what you mean by "both devices". The PAW is set to UDP connection type (so not the Auto default). The iPad (Skydemon) only has one option I'm aware of "PilotAware", I don't see anything referencing UDP?
I'm using the original USB cable that came with the unit, soldered into the board at the PAW end, with a fully charged Anker 21000 power block, not sure what more I can do than that, power-wise.
Thanks for the suggestions.
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I run my PAW from a Charge4 USB hub which is wired into the aircraft power. The power cable from the Charge4 to the PAW is 18 AWG wire terminated at each end with the appropriate USB plugs. The mini USB plugged into the PAW itself is secured with hot glue (well, it's cold now but was hot when it came out of the glue gun) tp make sure it doesn't wiggle its way loose.
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I run my PAW from a Charge4 USB hub which is wired into the aircraft power. The power cable from the Charge4 to the PAW is 18 AWG wire terminated at each end with the appropriate USB plugs. The mini USB plugged into the PAW itself is secured with hot glue (well, it's cold now but was hot when it came out of the glue gun) tp make sure it doesn't wiggle its way loose.
Sounds pretty solid. I do have PAW recommended power cable, supplied by them, and soldered into board by them! Don't think it's a power issue unless the cable is randomly defective.
Is there any way to tell from track logs if power is an issue, just to rule this out as red herring?
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Oh, now we’re straying into the realm of dragons. I do know the home page will tell you what’s happening with the power right now i.e if it’s being throttled etc. I would imagine the logging page would tell those in the know if there was a power snag but I wouldn’t have thought the same of the track logs. I imagine that’s just a record of the position ‘breadcrumbs’, as opposed to the state of the compute itself.
Hopefully someone who knows what they’re talking about can confirm or deny
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Is there any way to tell from track logs if power is an issue, just to rule this out as red herring?
Yes messages are indeed sent to the logfile, and also the Hotspot Home page.
Thx
Lee
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Is there any way to tell from track logs if power is an issue, just to rule this out as red herring?
Yes messages are indeed sent to the logfile, and also the Hotspot Home page.
Thx
Lee
Understood. Is it obvious (for the uninitiated) where and what to look for, or can I send you the file to inspect?
Thanks
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Understood. Is it obvious (for the uninitiated) where and what to look for, or can I send you the file to inspect?
Thanks
try searching for the keyword THROTTLE
Also canyou report what is seen on the home page ?
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I'm an admin in a team of same on a large flying forum (>60,000) users.
One of the things we have a lot of problems with is people using data compression or saving in browsers on mobile devices. We end up with failed logins, odd invalid session errors, or constant connection/disconnection issues, with need to re-log in.
If using an mobile device, it may be worth disabling data saving/compression. Or, if you feel you need that in your main browser, download and install a different one for PAW. Googling will show you how to turn the feature on/off for testing...
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Understood. Is it obvious (for the uninitiated) where and what to look for, or can I send you the file to inspect?
Thanks
try searching for the keyword THROTTLE
Also canyou report what is seen on the home page ?
Like this?
$PALOG,20200526,142305,THROTTLE,1,UV,0,FC,1,TH
There are a couple like that every minute in the log.
And a lot of these:
$PALOG,20200526,105117,WIFI,UDP,192.168.1.27:4000,DISCONNECTED
$PALOG,20200526,105117,WIFI,UDP,192.168.1.27:2000,ATTEMPT
$PALOG,20200526,105117,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,7380C8,206,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,16198,VDIFF
Unfortunately I didn't check the home page during flight. I can fire it up now if that would help, but so far it has always been fine on the ground.
I do have a confession though - while looking for the track logs, I noticed that I had loaded an old aircraft configuration (flown before lockdown) and forgot to switch back to my usual. The old config had connection type set to AUTO not UDP. So I have loaded the correct config now, but don't know if that is actually relevant.
Thanks
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I'm an admin in a team of same on a large flying forum (>60,000) users.
One of the things we have a lot of problems with is people using data compression or saving in browsers on mobile devices. We end up with failed logins, odd invalid session errors, or constant connection/disconnection issues, with need to re-log in.
If using an mobile device, it may be worth disabling data saving/compression. Or, if you feel you need that in your main browser, download and install a different one for PAW. Googling will show you how to turn the feature on/off for testing...
But SkyDemon isn't a browser app.
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Like this?
$PALOG,20200526,142305,THROTTLE,1,UV,0,FC,1,TH
There are a couple like that every minute in the log.
And a lot of these:
$PALOG,20200526,105117,WIFI,UDP,192.168.1.27:4000,DISCONNECTED
$PALOG,20200526,105117,WIFI,UDP,192.168.1.27:2000,ATTEMPT
$PALOG,20200526,105117,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,7380C8,206,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,16198,VDIFF
Unfortunately I didn't check the home page during flight. I can fire it up now if that would help, but so far it has always been fine on the ground.
I do have a confession though - while looking for the track logs, I noticed that I had loaded an old aircraft configuration (flown before lockdown) and forgot to switch back to my usual. The old config had connection type set to AUTO not UDP. So I have loaded the correct config now, but don't know if that is actually relevant.
Thanks
yep thats it - smoking gun :P
1,UV - means UnderVoltage (true)
Sorry if asked before, USB lead type and battery type ?
Thx
Lee
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I do have a confession though - while looking for the track logs, I noticed that I had loaded an old aircraft configuration (flown before lockdown) and forgot to switch back to my usual. The old config had connection type set to AUTO not UDP. So I have loaded the correct config now, but don't know if that is actually relevant.
Thanks
Very relevant - that could certainly explain the iPad disconnects.
WRT the Throttling,
In your original post you stated (with reference to earlier disconnects) that...
'This has been happening for some time, and previously very helpful PaW Support have soldered the power cable in [so presumably standard Rosetta one] (to eliminate loose usb connection as cause).'
The cable could of course still have developed a fault internally or where attached to the connectors at either end through repeated flexing. You can easily check this by powering up the unit then flexing the cable while watching the normally solid red 'Power LED' (in the corner next to the longer PAW antenna socket on the Rosetta), for any sign of flickering or going out which will indicate disconnection.
I also would be interested to hear what power supply arrangements (i.e. what make/model of socket/ power pack or whatever and cabling thereto) you are using.
Best Regards
Peter
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Like this?
$PALOG,20200526,142305,THROTTLE,1,UV,0,FC,1,TH
There are a couple like that every minute in the log.
And a lot of these:
$PALOG,20200526,105117,WIFI,UDP,192.168.1.27:4000,DISCONNECTED
$PALOG,20200526,105117,WIFI,UDP,192.168.1.27:2000,ATTEMPT
$PALOG,20200526,105117,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,7380C8,206,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,16198,VDIFF
Unfortunately I didn't check the home page during flight. I can fire it up now if that would help, but so far it has always been fine on the ground.
I do have a confession though - while looking for the track logs, I noticed that I had loaded an old aircraft configuration (flown before lockdown) and forgot to switch back to my usual. The old config had connection type set to AUTO not UDP. So I have loaded the correct config now, but don't know if that is actually relevant.
Thanks
yep thats it - smoking gun :P
1,UV - means UnderVoltage (true)
Sorry if asked before, USB lead type and battery type ?
Thx
Lee
Thanks Lee and Peter. Answering both your questions together:
The USB lead type is the Juicy Bitz lead which came with the unit when I purchased it (mid 2018?). Last summer Keith V kindly soldered the PAW end to the board to try to resolve issues I was having then when I suspected a loose connector.
The battery is an Anker 20100 unit, fully charge (four blue dots).
The cable (0.5m long maybe?) from the PAW is plugged directly into the Anker 20100 unit.
Based on everything said so far, it seems like the cable has to be the prime suspect. Perhaps always working OK at home as it's stationary, and intermittent in aircraft because of vibration. Maybe something to do with heat too - it can get quite warm in the a/c.
I'll try flexing it around at home to see if I can replicate.
If I need to order a new cable, can you recommend a specific one (e.g. Amazon link)?
Many thanks.
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I'm an admin in a team of same on a large flying forum (>60,000) users.
One of the things we have a lot of problems with is people using data compression or saving in browsers on mobile devices. We end up with failed logins, odd invalid session errors, or constant connection/disconnection issues, with need to re-log in.
If using an mobile device, it may be worth disabling data saving/compression. Or, if you feel you need that in your main browser, download and install a different one for PAW. Googling will show you how to turn the feature on/off for testing...
But SkyDemon isn't a browser app.
Sorry, agreed, but I was looking at Lee's post where he said:
there seems to be a few anecdotal stories on Android web browsers
Which web browser are you using on android ?
Can you confirm that your android device has ALL battery saving options disabled
This is known to mess up the WiFi connection
thx
Lee
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So I did a highly scientific field test to see if moving cable and unit around would reveal anything. Results were puzzling.
The first time I powered up, the home page showed Voltage warning and Throttle from the get-go. I moved cable around, shook unit, sat it in the sun etc. Nothing changed.
So I unplugged the battery, left it for a minute, then powered up again. This time, voltage fine, no throttling, everything OK. I shook it around, sat it in the sun, flexed the cable all over the place. Nothing changed, no throttling, no voltage warning.
I left it running for about 90mins, gave it another few shakes during that time and still no change.
I inspected the log afterwards, I don't know how to read it, but the only thing which maybe looked odd was a bunch of these which started showing up in high volume after about an hour.
$PALOG,20200529,113658,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1730,VDIFF
$PALOG,20200529,113659,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1730,VDIFF
$PALOG,20200529,113659,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1729,VDIFF
$PALOG,20200529,113659,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1729,VDIFF
$PALOG,20200529,113659,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1729,VDIFF
And a number of these randomly interspersed about 5 mins apart:
$PALOG,20200529,105334,PAWRT,400BC1,TIMEOUT
So I'm not sure what to conclude from that - perhaps a poor/dirty USB connector (cable to battery), or maybe I got unlucky with the battery and it's a faulty one. I can try a different battery. Changing the cable is more of a hassle.
The other thing I have observed is that when running SD on the iPad, if you put SD to background (e.g. to check another app), and ipad goes to sleep mode, then you return to SD, the dreaded "Waiting for Device" appears, and it doesn't automatically reconnect. Is that expected behaviour?
Thanks again.
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So I did a highly scientific field test to see if moving cable and unit around would reveal anything. Results were puzzling.
The first time I powered up, the home page showed Voltage warning and Throttle from the get-go. I moved cable around, shook unit, sat it in the sun etc. Nothing changed.
These values are latched, also called 'sticky bits' - once set they do not clear, otherwise there is no way to tell an event occured.
So I unplugged the battery, left it for a minute, then powered up again. This time, voltage fine, no throttling, everything OK. I shook it around, sat it in the sun, flexed the cable all over the place. Nothing changed, no throttling, no voltage warning.
OK
I left it running for about 90mins, gave it another few shakes during that time and still no change.
I inspected the log afterwards, I don't know how to read it, but the only thing which maybe looked odd was a bunch of these which started showing up in high volume after about an hour.
$PALOG,20200529,113658,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1730,VDIFF
$PALOG,20200529,113659,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1730,VDIFF
$PALOG,20200529,113659,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1729,VDIFF
$PALOG,20200529,113659,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1729,VDIFF
$PALOG,20200529,113659,DEBUG,MODEC-FILTER-PASS,4073FD,223,SIG,200,MAX,170,FILTER,1729,VDIFF
I presume you have the mode-C filter enabled - this is showing the state of the dynamic filter
And a number of these randomly interspersed about 5 mins apart:
$PALOG,20200529,105334,PAWRT,400BC1,TIMEOUT
This indicates an A/C is no longer being received, so either now out of range, or no longer emitting.
So I'm not sure what to conclude from that - perhaps a poor/dirty USB connector (cable to battery), or maybe I got unlucky with the battery and it's a faulty one. I can try a different battery. Changing the cable is more of a hassle.
Either is possible.
The other thing I have observed is that when running SD on the iPad, if you put SD to background (e.g. to check another app), and ipad goes to sleep mode, then you return to SD, the dreaded "Waiting for Device" appears, and it doesn't automatically reconnect. Is that expected behaviour?
yes it was asleep, and so not listening, and has to start listening again
Thx
Lee
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Ok thanks Lee. I’ll try a different battery next time I’m up and will report back. At least I know what to look for now. It’s frustrating to be having the problem when I am using all the recommended bits.