PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: a1650772 on February 27, 2020, 03:45:58 pm
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I have just purchased Pilotaware Rosetta and am having connectivity issues in Skydemon on my iPhone. If I try to connect using the Pilotaware option, I simply get the message "Connecting to Device". However, if I switch the Pilotaware settings to Flarm (TCP) and then connect using the Flarm option in Skydemon then it connects fine. I saw a thread regarding a similar issue here: http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,1206.0.html but could not see a solution posted.
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Have you connected to the PilotAware hotspot?
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Yes I have. And it is clearly connected because otherwise I assume I would not be able to connect using the Flarm option in Skydemon.
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Sorry, Misread that on my phone screen. Thought you could not connect with Flarm.
Can you post a screenshot of your PAW Home and config page?
Can you also ensure that in SD the PilotAware option is the only Third-Party Device enabled
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there is an option on the PilotAware configure page near the bottom for connection method, change from Auto to PilotAware(UDP)
Thx
Lee
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I'm getting the same issue using a Rasberry Pi with Pilot aware downloaded version 20190621. If I try to connect using the Pilotaware option, I simply get the message "Connecting to Device". However, if I switch the Pilotaware settings to Flarm (TCP) and then connect using the Flarm option in Skydemon then it connects fine.
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I'm getting the same issue using a Rasberry Pi with Pilot aware downloaded version 20190621. If I try to connect using the Pilotaware option, I simply get the message "Connecting to Device". However, if I switch the Pilotaware settings to Flarm (TCP) and then connect using the Flarm option in Skydemon then it connects fine.
do you get bearingless traffic advices when using Flarm option in skydemon?
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HI Mariko,
You will get Bearingless target ‘Ring’ alerts on SD using the ‘Flarm’ (TCP) connection just the same as if using the ‘PilotAware’ (UDP) connection. The main difference is IIRC that if the ‘Flarm’ connection drops out it has to be manually reconnected, whereas the ‘PilotAware’ (UDP) option should reconnect automatically (as long as the PAW signal is still present).
Matt,
Several questions here. You say you are running 20190621 on a ‘Raspberry Pi’. Is this a ‘Home Built’ unit or a bought one? If bought, is it a PAW Classic or Rosetta? If Homebuilt, which Raspberry Pi are you using? How is it powered? What make/model of tablet are you using?
On the face of it, this sounds like a problem with the WiFi link between your pad and your PilotAware. This can happen, for example, when the power feed drops when starting your engine and during the period when your PilotAware is rebooting, your pad may have reconnected to another WiFi link, such as in the Clubhouse - with no PilotAware feed. I saw this yesterday with a mate’s unit which did just that. Unaware of what was going on he realised was unable to get PAW going for his flight and so reverted to using ‘Location Services’ which gave position but of course no traffic info. I advise always rechecking that your tablet (or other device) is still connected to your own PilotAware after engine start and before takeoff.
Another possibility is the WiFi connection itself. We have seen issues in the past with a couple of PAW / tablet combinations, though these are rare. There was an issue several years back for example where some users of the Google Nexus 2012 version found that their tablets refused to connect if the units were close together because the WiFi power was too high, though mine was always fine (I now mainly use an iPad Mini BTW). There have also been one or two isolated reports of connection difficulties with IIRC specific Lenovo tablets and possibly a particular Samsung model, but this is extremely rare. You can experiment with the WiFi transmit power setting in the PAW / Networks setup tab, but take note of the base settings first, make any adjustments in small steps and be aware that the unit has to reboot each time for the change to take effect ( so make sure your tablet is still properly connected after each reboot).
Let us know how you get on.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter for the quick response. I am doing a home set up before looking to install in my permit aircraft - I bought the 'PAW bridge' sometime ago. I have had it working on the earlier version of Pilotaware with the same hardware set up. I am using a homebuilt set up using a Raspbery Pi 2 model B connecting with an apple mini ipad 2. I cleared my home wifi from the mini ipad so that it remained 'locked' to the pilotaware wifi as I had noticed it was previously dropping the connection and reverting to the home wifi. I've checked the pilot aware is picking up traffic but for some reason, Skydemon on my ipad mini 2 just doesn't want to want to connect to the pilotaware. Last night I did a full installation of the PAW software onto a different 16GB disk but that also has not fixed the issue. I've been at this for hours and can't seem to work out what the issue is. I have tried different combinations of the network settings but to no avail. The homepage is showing all the 'greens' on he paw so power and receipt of signals all looks to be ok. I agree it feels like it's a problem with the network connection, specifically the pilotaware UDP connection.
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Hi again Matt,
The fact that you say your pad was previously dropping the connection and reverting to your Home WiFi leans me towards a problem with your PAW WiFi, though from your posts this seems strange.
You also say you are seeing the PilotAware Home Page with all greens, (presumably on your pad?) so the pad must be connecting to the PAW WiFi Hotspot, though the connection may not be robust.
When you say you checked that the PilotAware was picking up traffic, I take it this was from the PAW Traffic Screen? On your iPad or otherwise?
I take it you also saw Lee’s post further up and have changed the Connectivity in the PilotAware Configure Screen from Auto to PilotAware UDP?
(The ‘Auto Connectivity’ setting was introduced in 20160621 in an attempt to improve efficiency by allowing PilotAware to check which type of dataset their display device was asking for and only send that type of data across, but in some cases it hasn’t worked as intended, hence why we suggest deciding beforehand and selecting your preferred option here.)
You have presumably also made the matching selection in SkyDemon / Setup / Third Party Devices. This will normally run with multiple options selected, but for test purposes, I’d suggest restricting it to only the one option we’re trying to get to work i.e. PilotAware. I take it you aren’t using a Bluetooth GPS Receiver BTW (as per SD’s note). Please also check that you are using the latest version of SkyDemon.
This could still be a power issue - how are you powering the setup? Can you run the unit for a while then take and post a screenshot of the Home Page so we can see if there are any power issues showing.
If not, it would be worth trying another WiFi dongle (or upgrading to a Pi3 with built-in WiFi).
Regards
Peter
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Hi Peter,
I have responded in line with each of your comments to make things easier.
The fact that you say your pad was previously dropping the connection and reverting to your Home WiFi leans me towards a problem with your PAW WiFi, though from your posts this seems strange.[ I don't think this is connected to the issue but needed resolving anyway.]
You also say you are seeing the PilotAware Home Page with all greens, (presumably on your pad?) [Yes] so the pad must be connecting to the PAW WiFi Hotspot [Agree], though the connection may not be robust.
When you say you checked that the PilotAware was picking up traffic, I take it this was from the PAW Traffic Screen? On your iPad or otherwise? [On the Ipad]
I take it you also saw Lee’s post further up and have changed the Connectivity in the PilotAware Configure Screen from Auto to PilotAware UDP? [yes, I have set the to 'Pilotaware UDP']
(The ‘Auto Connectivity’ setting was introduced in 20160621 in an attempt to improve efficiency by allowing PilotAware to check which type of dataset their display device was asking for and only send that type of data across, but in some cases it hasn’t worked as intended, hence why we suggest deciding beforehand and selecting your preferred option here.) [ok, makes sense]
You have presumably also made the matching selection in SkyDemon / Setup / Third Party Devices [Yes]. This will normally run with multiple options selected, but for test purposes, I’d suggest restricting it to only the one option we’re trying to get to work i.e. PilotAware. [Agree] I take it you aren’t using a Bluetooth GPS Receiver BTW (as per SD’s note) [No, wired GPS to the Raspberry Pi]]. Please also check that you are using the latest version of SkyDemon. [I did check that]
This could still be a power issue - how are you powering the setup? [Decent cable, purchased from ThepiHut and plugged into an extension socket with USB outlets. I could try a different 5v adapter plug. Is it the voltage or the amps that is most important? Or just the quality?]. Can you run the unit for a while then take and post a screenshot of the Home Page so we can see if there are any power issues showing.
If not, it would be worth trying another WiFi dongle (or upgrading to a Pi3 with built-in WiFi). [I hadn't thought of that. I have tried a Raspberry pi 3 (as the kids had one) with the PilotAware bridge attached but that also did not work and also seemed to have issues connecting to the P3I & Barometer.] I've attached a screenshot of the Pilotaware Homepage on the ipad for the Pi 2 model B but have noticed the most recent connections are not as good as when I was testing yesterday. I'm now going to try and find a decent 5v adapter to see if that makes a difference.]
Thanks again for your help,
Matt
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Hi Matt,
Thanks for the additional info.
Most of that seems OK. Power supply is critical, which is why I asked about that specifically. The supply needs to be able to maintain 2.1 amps without the voltage dropping below 5 volts - which requires a really good reliable power supply - and also requires a cable with power wires at least 20 AWG diameter (higher number = thinner cable) to minimise voltage drop. There is, however, no sign of a power issue in your screenshot, though you clearly didn’t have a GPS fix when you took the shot, which would in itself certainly mean no data transfer to SkyDemon at that time (though you did say you had 4 x Greens when you were having the problem earlier).
I would suggest ensuring a good solid power supply and then try the unit outside to get a solid reliable gps fix (you need at least 4 satellites for this) and see where you go from there.
Regards
Peter
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Matt,
Just reading back through your posts this morning - When you tried your kid’s Pi3, it wouldn’t work because the licence key is locked to the motherboard and without the licence key you aren’t going to get 4 Greens. If you decide on a permanent change of board, the licence key can be swapped over FOC by emailing support@pilotaware.com with your name and the 12 figure MAC addresses of the old and new Pi’s.
Regards
Peter
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Hi Matt, Peter
Even when PilotAware does not have a gps lock, it still sends messages to SkyDemon
So SkyDemon should be displaying ‘0 gps satellites’, not ‘connecting to device’
Something else is happening here
To confirm
Ipad connected to PilotAware
Pilotaware set to output pilotaware udp
SkyDemon 3rd party device = PilotAware
SkyDemon message ‘connecting to device’
If so, That is very odd
Thx
Lee
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Lee,
If Matt confirms the above settings, (which is certainly my reading of Matt’s setup from his previous posts), then that’s exactly what I would have expected.
If so, I agree, definitely something strange going on which I certainly haven’t been experiencing.
I wonder if it could be related to Matt’s version of iOS (which is... ? Matt), though I can’t think why it should be. I take it the RPi Kernel is OK? Matt did a fresh install, so it should be and he says he’s running the latest version of SD.
Mystifying...
Regards
Peter
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Thank you Peter & Lee for your additional thoughts.
Responding to Lee's questions I can confirm:
Ipad is connecting to PilotAware as I can see the pilotaware homepage on IP address 192.168.1.1 with 'all the greens'
Pilotaware is set to output 'pilotaware udp'
SkyDemon 3rd party device is set to 'PilotAware'
It's very strange. When the Third-Party Device setting is set to 'FLARM with Air Connect' SD connects to the Pilotaware but not when setting to 'Pilotaware', so it would seem to be something particular to this type of connection.
Peter - I noted your comments about the Pi 3 connections and if I choose to switch to that device then I will look to get it registered. For now I am going to continue to try and diagnose the issue with the pi 2.
One further observation is that I have run the same setup on my android phone (Galaxy S9) and am also still not getting a connection to PAW from SD (though I can connect to paw through my chrome browser on 192.168.1.1 with 'all the greens') - see screenshot attached.
Because I am not getting a connection when running SD on either my ipad or android phone it's making me think it might be something in the latest version of the Pilotaware though it seems very odd that no-one else seems to have experienced the issue. I am going to revert to the older version (20180520) to see if that resolves the issue. If that fails I'm left thinking it's user error somewhere but at this stage I can't fathom what I might be doing wrong.
I'll let you know my findings....
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Not sure that many people will be running RPi 2 devices. There are significant advantages in upgrading to a RPi 3 plus. That could be why it has not been reported before?
Wondering if I still have a RPi 2 that has not been repurposed?
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I wonder if the OP has had his issue resolved?
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Hi Graham,
I’ve dropped the OP an e-mail to ask if he managed to resolve the problem.
Regards
Peter
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Matt,
I was thinking yesterday about asking you to try on another (preferably android) device to see if that made any difference, so glad to see your report - but just as stuck for an answer.
Ian,
There are still a significant number of PAWs out there running on Pi2s, so I would be surprised if that’s the issue, but will run up one of my Pi2s and give it a try. I can replicate Matt’s setup as my ‘spare’ iOS device is a Mini 2.
Regards
Peter
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I am just following up on the query above. The first day I tried the Rosetta it would not work with UDP or Auto - only Flarm. However, I tried the next day - with no changes to settings - and it worked fine. I haven't tried since. The only difference I can think of is that the battery was better charged on the second attempt.
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Hi a1650772,
Many thanks for the quick response and update. That would certainly imply that your problem was power related. Not sure that helps in the present case however as Matt’s screengrabs are showing no indication of power issues.
Matt/All,
I have also read back through the ‘Barbeau’ thread mentioned and also Barbeau’s earlier thread from early 2018, but that was before Lee altered the software to resolve a known UDP over WiFi connectivity issue on iOS which was resolved by releasing 20180520.
Matt,
You said that your Homebuilt Pi2 / Bridge Setup was working fine on ‘the earlier version of the software’ until you ‘upgraded’ to 20190621. Can you tell us what version that was - i.e. was it 20180520 or an earlier version? (Postscript - just noticed you said that it was 20180520 - P :-[ )
Lee,
The thought crossed my mind that this could be related to the old DHCP connection issue on iOS, but Matt is seeing the same problem on his android Galaxy S9 - so surely not.
Could this still be power related even though nothing is indicating? Would a long term soak test help show something up?
Regards
Peter
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I reverted to software version 20180520 on the Pi 2 and it's back working again! SD connected immediately to my pi 2. So it would seem there's something about the latest version of paw that is preventing a connection from SD running on my Ipad Mini 2 to paw running on my pi 2 (unless there was a power issue not being detected that has suddenly resolved itself which seems highly unlikely given I have probably performed about 30 tests on the same hardware set up).
Does this point to a possible cause in the latest paw version. My ipad mini is running ios version 12.4.5
Graham - Good to hear from you! Hope all's well with you. I guess you may not have realised when contributing to the thread who I am as my surnames not included in my username! ;-)
Thanks all for your continued support whilst I've been grappling with this issue. At least for now I have an operational set-up.
Matt
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Hi Ian,
I meany =t to reply to your post on my earlier reply. I did try running paw (version 20190620) on an RPi 3 model b but that did not resolve the issue. So I went back to the RPi 2 to continue trying to diagnose the problem.
Thanks,
Matt
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Hi Matt,
Good to hear from you, and I’m glad you are making some progress in resolving your issue. The penny hadn’t dropped it was you!
Things are going well, thanks. Luckily my aircraft has been away at the beauty salon for new paint over the last two months, thus dodging the floods which would have soaked it three or four times had it stayed at home.
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Hi Matt,
Can you explain exactly the 2 scenarios which work / do not work ?
Hardware version
Software Version
Connection Method
Configuration setting
Also, where are you based ?
Thx
Lee
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Hi Ian,
I meany =t to reply to your post on my earlier reply. I did try running paw (version 20190620) on an RPi 3 model b but that did not resolve the issue. So I went back to the RPi 2 to continue trying to diagnose the problem.
Thanks,
Matt
I don't fully understand this, if you changed the underlying hardware, the license would not work unless re-licensed, are you saying that the license was OK, but it did not function correctly ?
I looked in our database, and I think you were one of the early adopters who built your own hardware and purchased a Bridge, rather than a full product, is that correct.
Could it be that the WiFi dongle you used is not fully compatible ?
Can you Try your Pi3 again, I am pretty sure this did not work due to a licensing issue.
If you give the license request code for the Pi3, I can generate a license to try
Thx
Lee
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Hi Lee,
I have set up my pi 3 again with software 20190621. I hadn't realised i needed to register the pi 3 mac address against my existing license key or have a replacement license key and so that explains why it may not have connected. The mac address for my pi 3 is B827EBD24D98.
You were correct when you stated that I was an early adopter who purchased a Bridge to build my own hardware set up.
Please let me know if you need any other information. Will you be registering my pi 3 mac address against my existing license or do you intend to share a temporary new key to help with testing?
Many thanks,
Matt
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Lee,
For the avoidance of doubt, I had already covered the issue of the ‘temporary’ Pi3 being unlicensed.
Matt had stated earlier that he had tried one of his Kid’s Pi3s to see if that would clear the issue, but hadn’t realised (until I told him) that it wouldn’t work without a licence swap, so had reverted to his Homebuilt Pi2 so we could continue trying to work out what was going on.
We then continued to try to resolve why SkyDemon was refusing to establish a connection on the Pi2 - which he had recently upgraded it to 20190621, despite the fact that he clearly still had a WiFi connection and was able to ‘see’ his PAW via his browser - when it had been running properly on 20180520 before the upgrade.
Presumably not a ‘wrong WiFi chip’ issue as it was reportedly working fine previously, but my thoughts were that it could be a ‘dodgy’ WiFi dongle or the ‘old SDR playing up and blocking the WiFi signal’ that we have seen in the past with a few older units, but we hadn’t got round to testing which yet.
Regards
Peter
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Matt,
If you get a chance, it would be worth trying removing the SDR /1090 antenna from your Pi2 unit (with Bridge) then power it up (with 20190621) and see if you still get the frozen ‘Connecting to device’ issue. That would eliminate a dodgy SDR as a potential source of the data block.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter & Lee,
With a new license key from received from paw earlier today, my SD connected to my pi 3 straight away using software 20190621 - So I will be using the pi 3 from now on and hopefully my kids won't notice the downgrade!
Peter - I tested the the pi 2 again as you suggested this time removing the SDR /1090 antenna (with Bridge):
- Software version 20190621 - SD did not connect to PA (but this is probably because I get a message saying 'License expired' for the original registered license key tied to the pi 2. Using the new license key registered to my pi 3 would not work presumably for obvious reasons).
- Software version 20180520 - SD connected to PAW no problem.
Thanks all, I'm just happy that i am now able to to use the latest version of paw to connect to my SD software using a pi 3 rather than pi 2.
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Hi Matt,
Thanks for trying. I’m - guessing you switched the card with 20190621 over from the Pi3 to the Pi2 but it will now have the licence key for the Pi3 etched on the card.
Your Pi2 would still run as the old licence hasn’t yet expired, but you would need to run the test with a fresh install of 20190621 and reinstall the original licence key. Probably not worth it now you have got your new board up and running though.
Best regards
Peter
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Hi all
I was hoping Matt would come back and post his findings
To let everyone know, running up on a pi3 worked
I suspect this was an issue with the wifi dongle
Thx
Lee
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I agree, though what we don’t of course know is whether the SDR was contributory in any way.
If Matt has any issues with the old SDR in his new Pi3 setup, however, I’m sure he will let us know :)
Regards
Peter
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Hi Peter and Lee,
The pi 3 is working fine with the latest software once I received the new license key - just to confirm.
On the pi 2 I was using the following wifi dongle: https://store.netgate.com/Pluggable-USB-20-80211n-wireless-adapter-P2573.aspx. On closer inspection I can see the casing to the dongle is cracked and i think this has been caused by it being stressed whilst located alongside the USB's for the GPS or antennae fittings das there is little spacing. It's possible it may have been damaged although it still seems to connect to the internet when the kids are using it. Switching to the pi 3 with inbuilt wifi is a major advantage that has avoided this issue (as you previiously mentioned).
Lee - I can send the wifi dongle but I'd need to first replace it as the kids don't have wired internet access in the room where I have the pi 2 set up. I may shortly upgrade it to a pi 4 anyway in which case I would happily forward onto you so you can inspect it if you wanted to.
Peter - I tried a fresh install of 20190621 and reinstall the original license key on the pi 2 but the license still shows as expired.
Please let me know if you'd like any more info or other tests to be carried out.
Thanks,
Matt
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Hi Matt,
OK, I think I found something important here, the link you provided uses the RTL8188CUS chipset, the recommendation for the early adopters was to use a WiFi dongle using the RT5370 chipset.
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,1489.msg18453.html#msg18453
The dongle you choose uses the RTL8188CUS chipset, someone reported similar findings regarding UDP
https://lb.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=188164
Explains the issue you were seeing.
Glad its now resolved
Thx
Lee
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Hi Matt,
Thanks for the feedback, (and to Lee for the technical info). It all makes sense now and good to know that your SDR should still be working fine. Another issue resolved and a bit more information into the collective knowledge bank - an extremely satisfying result all round ! :)
Best Regards and Safe Flying
Peter