PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: stillstanding on December 08, 2016, 05:45:14 pm
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Just received my Classic today.
For set-up and test purposes I'm powering using an iPad 10W charger plus the PAW cable. Unit powers up fine, steady red power light, alternate flashing red/green lights above.
Using my iPad Mini 3 (running iOS 10.1.1) I intermittently see the PAW SSID. When I try and connect after a brief attempt I get the error message "Unable to join the network PilotAware-xxxxxxx".
I've also tried connecting with an iPhone 6 running iOS 10.1.1, and a MacBook Pro running OS 10.12.1 with the same result.
I've tried powering the PAW off and on, disconnected and reconnected all of the USB dongles, restarted the iPad, tried a second iPad charger....
Any ideas please?
Thanks,
Mike
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Just tried it in the car using a cigar lighter adapter (admittedly a cheapo).
Got the SSID and managed to connect with my iPad. But by the time I had tried to get to the config page connection was lost, and never to return.
Is this a voltage thing?
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My initial reaction is, yes a voltage thing
But a 10w apple charger should be fine
Sounds like a return, or Dave may ship a replacement wifi dongle
Thx
Lee
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Tried disconnecting the other USB bits that get hot. Managed to get the iPad to hook up to the PAW and even got to the config page before losing the connection.
Reading more past posts it looks like several of these WiFi dongles have been faulty and everything has been fine after replacement.
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Hi Mike,
Whilst we have had a few faulty WiFi dongles recently, this has certainly not been a major problem. In the early days we had a far higher percentage of failures due to power supplies being unable to keep up with the PAW. This was often due to a poor quality power lead, rather than the power supply itself, which is why the recommended power lead is now supplied in the 'kit'. All items in the kit are pre-assembled and tested before dispatch, so failures are a rarity. If you are still having problems, drop a line to Dave at support@pilotaware.com . He will be able to sort you out a replacement WiFi dongle or arrange return of the unit for further testing as appropriate.
Regards
Peter
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Tried a THIRD Apple USB 10W PS in the office this morning and everything works fine. Obviously the PS is critical for PAW to function.
Thanks to everyone for their help.
Mike
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Hi Mike
This seems odd to me, I would be surprised two different 10W power supplies give different results.
Can I ask you to give this a 'soak test' with this power supply.
ie, leave it running for 24 hours if possible
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Will do.
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What is this 10w Apple USB PS?
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If you buy an iPad it comes with a pretty white PS you plug into a socket, and then your lead to iPad, phone or whatever plugs into the USB socket in it.
There are some older low power ones around, but the 3 I own are rated 5V 10W so I foolishly expected them to power the PAW. 2 did, one didn't.
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Some of the OEM adapters will current limit until they sense a device being attached, as the Raspberry Pi doesn't have anything on the input to trigger that, some supplies may seem OK but in fact will not supply more than around 500ma. Enough to boot the Pi but not enough to make PAW work given the load and additional USB devices attached.
In USB spec terms the Pi is seen as a 'power thief' as it draws power without identifying itself to the charger. Bottom line is what it says on the label may is one thing, what it actually does can be totally different.
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What Apple supply is a charger for your iThingy, not a power supply. Jeremy knows far more about these things that I ever will, but would not trust a charger to power a Pi.
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Ian, agreed it's a charger, but it was all I had to hand to get it up and running. How does everyone else run it at home for set up and testing???
I'm also wondering if I'm dreaming or not. I brought the set up that was working Ok all day in my office 2 miles to my home and I'm back to square one! I must live in an area that draws all of the energy away or something.
Tomorrow I will go to the airfield, drag my aircraft out of the hangar and hope I can get it to work.
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What will you be using to power it in the aircraft
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A good quality cigar lighter converter to USB thing, but if that doesn't work then I'll order an Anker Power Drive 2.
And if that doesn't work then I'll add an Anker Powercore to my Xmas list!
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How does everyone else run it at home for set up and testing???
I use one of these at home and in the aircraft.
http://www.zendure.com/collections/a-series-portable-chargers/products/a3 (http://www.zendure.com/collections/a-series-portable-chargers/products/a3)
ATB
Deker.
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Hi Mike,
Very frustrating!! FWIW I use a couple of ANKER 20100mAh battery packs for all my home testing. See here...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VJSGT2A/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I have found them totally reliable, with easily 15 hours or more operation. I also used them in the plane in the early days, but now have one of Jeremy C's 'Charge 4' power supplies fitted in the plane, which I find totally reliable, powering my PAW, iPad Mini, Galaxy phone and GoPro. As we have said earlier, poor power supply accounts for a very high proportion of early day PAW failures, so well worth getting this bit right. Other options mentioned above also good.
Regards
Peter
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I have a 22ah power pack for testing and a 10ah for flight, both 100% reliable. I also have a mains PSU for the Pi that doesn't get used that often. I also use a 0.5m USB lead, the first recommended.
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I use one of these at home:
https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/plug-in-power-supply/8226373/ (https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/p/plug-in-power-supply/8226373/)
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Update on the saga...
Got an Anker PowerCore 20100 yesterday. Charged it up, powered up the PAW and the same thing, can't connect to the hotspot. Reset everything and no change. Then I gave up and moved it all to the dining room table to get it off my desk. And then I found the damn thing works there!!!
When tested before at home its been about 2 feet from my laptop and a couple of metres from the home wifi router. Perhaps interference has been stopping my iPad or iPhone from connecting. I will investigate further to determine if its the router or laptop.
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Mike,
It could be that your home router is using the same WiFi channel and overpowering your PAW when it is close. I'm not sure how you check what channel your home router uses as this is not an area I have had to venture into so far. Lee or Paul S would be able to advise better, but you can now change the PAW Wi-Fi Channel (in the PAW 'Network' tab). This was introduced specifically to deal with this type of problem, but tread carefully in case it makes things worse, though I'm pretty sure that if you take it well away from your home router you would be able to reconnect and change back.
Lee/Paul - advice appreciated.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter.
That's exactly what I plan to do once the PowerCore is recharged! The channels on my router are set to Auto, but I will specify the 2.4 GHz one and make sure its different.
Mike
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It's not just a case of interference and channel. If your device is set up to automatically connect to a hotspot, you may find that it shunts back and forth, i.e. it'll sometimes try and connect or at least have a look at the other Wifi network. Some devices look for an active internet connection so if it doesn't find one on your PAW hotspot it'll try looking elsewhere. I'm not sure if/how this would still then show you were connected to the PAW but it seems to be a problem.
Note that a problem I had for a while (seems resolved now) was when the tablet and the PAW were too close together. Move them further apart and everything worked. This was resolved in a software update a long while ago though, but the devices still don't like being too close to each other. I've found that 20cm+ is ok though. (when the problem existed they needed to be more than about a metre and a half apart!).
Note that being on the same channel can be fine, and cause less interference than if on an adjacent channel. It's recommended that all Wifi hotspots are on channels 1, 6, or 11, which will then give the minimum of interference. An explanation is given here:
https://support.zen.co.uk/kb/Knowledgebase/Broadband-Understanding-Wireless-Channels (https://support.zen.co.uk/kb/Knowledgebase/Broadband-Understanding-Wireless-Channels)
Your local Wifi map should look something like this:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/11bu4qb.png)
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Thanks Paul,
Very useful information. One of these things I've always meant to look into but never had the need, so have never made the time.
Regards
Peter
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If you use an Apple product, then those WiFi monitor apps will not work.
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Doesn't need to. Just shows the use of channels 1, 6 and 11 for optimum interference avoidance.
Just use one of those.
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OK, so here is hopefully the end of the saga with my findings - wifi interference!!!
Brief recap. I bought a PAW Classic recently, planning to use in my aircraft using my cigar socket/USB adapter, and an Apple 10W charger at home for test and set up. However trying to set up at home I couldn't connect to the PAW wifi using my iPad Mini, iPhone, PC laptop or MacBook Pro.
However I could get the PAW to work off a similar charger my the office. Tried again at home (but with hindsight only in the same room as the wifi router!) and it wouldn't work.
New problem, the PAW works fine from my cigar lighter adapter. However on power checks when I check the engine at idle the low voltage warning light comes on and the PAW does a restart!
So I bought an Anker PowerCore 20100 for use in the air, but also tried it for home testing and found exactly the same problem, couldn't get it to connect on wifi. This is testing at my desk at home as before.
Now with the freedom to move away from power sockets I tried in a different room. Low and behold it worked perfectly!
Then came the tip about wifi interference. I use an Apple Extreme Base Station, and the 2.4 MHz band was set to Auto. Changed it to band 1. PAW now connects first time every time to any device. I have set the PAW to channel 11 to give even more spacing. When the PAW wouldn't connect I was 2-3 metres away from the router, so the interference was considerable. And now it will work at my desk powered by the Apple 10W charger too!
Thank you everyone for your help.
Now all I've got to sort out is to stop the PAW and battery sliding around in my cockpit!
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Well done Mike. Glad you have got to the bottom of your problems.
With regard to stopping things sliding about, you could of course use Velcro, (the hooks stick quite well to fabric or carpet - not an option in my plane) but if you don't want to stick Velcro to anything, there are various 'non-slip' pads available designed to stop Sat Navs etc slipping off car dashboards, which might work.
Regards
Peter
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... there are various 'non-slip' pads available designed to stop Sat Navs etc slipping off car dashboards, which might work.
Those non-slip pads may stop things from sliding around in a car, but they are not suitable for use in a plane. When flying through severe turbulences you'll wish you would have fixed every single part in the cockpit.
My 2p.
Eric
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Suckers!
Sorry, not an insult, this is what I'm going to do with mine. I've bought a new case and I'm going to drill some holes and fix in some suckers. Haven't done it yet though.
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Great piece of investigative work, that really is.
Most people would have given up much earlier, 110% for perseverance
Thlee