PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Richard W on June 26, 2016, 02:02:37 pm
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It had to happen sooner or later, my ground station south of Northampton received it's first pings, 146 from G-ZERO, as evidenced by the track file. I am using a Moonraker whip on a mast above my house as the P3i aerial, and I would like to determine detection range. What is the format of the track file, in particular the $PFLAA record, please.
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It had to happen sooner or later, my ground station south of Northampton received it's first pings, 146 from G-ZERO, as evidenced by the track file. I am using a Moonraker whip on a mast above my house as the P3i aerial, and I would like to determine detection range. What is the format of the track file, in particular the $PFLAA record, please.
Still waiting for someone to fly-by Cambridge, it's on most days depending on the weather, I may have to check the RX is working OK at this rate.
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Well my PAW classic has been running a full week now just east of Sandy.
Recieved a few pings earlier in the week then more last night and again this morning.I believe these to be FlyUK planes going into and departing from Long acres farm Sandy.
Also saw on SD Andy Fell's ADSB output as he flew Sandy - Bourn.
So how do I go about finding out who's plane these pings were from?
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Well it seems whilst I was making a cuppa I received 12 packets, so downloading the log to see if I can work it out. Should be in there somewhere!
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Jeremy I was working on site near Six Mile Bottom a week ago travelling along A14, was tempted to put PAW in van and see if I could collect the discount! :)
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Jeremy I was working on site near Six Mile Bottom a week ago travelling along A14, was tempted to put PAW in van and see if I could collect the discount! :)
Offer is still open as no one claimed it yet, although in the sprit of things I suppose the 'winner' should be airborne?
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No wonder nobody is getting any P3i traffic if everybody is running base stations LOL ;)
Not exactly flying weather up here today either - heavy rain and low cloud again! Maybe tomorrow, though looks a bit windy.
Regards
Peter
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No wonder nobody is getting any P3i traffic if everybody is running base stations LOL ;)
Not exactly flying weather up here today either - heavy rain and low cloud again! Maybe tomorrow, though looks a bit windy.
Regards
Peter
Mine will probably stay as a base station for a while, don't get to fly very much at the moment as too much other stuff going on. I need to do a proper antenna mount for the office roof anyway for some other bits and bobs I'm tinkering with.
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So how do I go about finding out who's plane these pings were from?
Well, that was the point of my original post. First you download the relevant track file, and open it with a text editor. If your PAW and the pinger were both set to the same Group-ID (eg PAWGRP), then the aircraft ID will be bracketed by the '#' character, so search for #. Otherwise, I do not believe that it is possible to spot a PAW record, but I would be pleased to be proved wrong.
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Richard, you are correct regarding the # to identify the other PilotAwares, when in the same group
In the next release we will be adding more info into the track file to indicate what type of packet was received.
We will probably also put some diagnostic info as well, this is very useful when remote debugging
Thx
Lee
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Richard, you are correct regarding the # to identify the other PilotAwares, when in the same group
In the next release we will be adding more info into the track file to indicate what type of packet was received.
We will probably also put some diagnostic info as well, this is very useful when remote debugging
Thx
Lee
I tried the search for the # but didn't find who I saw. After messing around with the 20Mb file I narrowed it down to callsigns where there were less than 14 messages but there was still a few of those. Perhaps wait the new firmware to make it easier, happy to install test software if needed too.
I'll be tinkering a little tomorrow sorting out some antenna stuff, seriously wondering if it would be easier to put a small ex marine radome on the top, that would confuse a few people!
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It had to happen sooner or later, my ground station south of Northampton received it's first pings, 146 from G-ZERO, as evidenced by the track file. I am using a Moonraker whip on a mast above my house as the P3i aerial, and I would like to determine detection range. What is the format of the track file, in particular the $PFLAA record, please.
Hello Richard,
That was me 8)
Are you near Byfield / Cannons Ashby?
I went for a quick bimble yesterday before the showers really set it - I seen a "contact" ahead and close.... where is he? where is he?...strain eyes to read the relative height and #idnumber# on my SD...oh 1100ft below ...ah, he's on the ground :-) which is about spot on as I was at 1,600ft QNH with the ground being about 450ft above sea level.
Had me going for a few seconds with eyes on storks looking for you.... I think when PAW is in ground mode it should only transmit GROUND ( ID and reg number) so that it is immediately clear that it is in fact a ground station.
I did try to make a screen grab but was busy making sure I didn't collide with your ground station ;D
Would be good if SD would have a setting to allow the adjustment of the font size, (maybe related to the threat level) at the moment it's far too small to read quickly.
Glad to be your first contact, it all works very very well and everyone should have a PAW in their aircraft.
(Mode C please Lee to blow Flarm out of the water ;-) )
Cheers,
Deker.
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Any news on the TRK reader. I heard that version 0.1 was being released soon. I had 56 packets received today (Southend on Sea) with 3 CRC fails. But it wasn't connected to my SkyDemon so presumably the TRK file won't have recorded the information.
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Lee, please could you throw a little light on the current file format? For the following record :-
$PFLAA,0,1266,2844,757,1,C3E566!#G-ZERO#,47,,60,,8*3F
I would guess that the third and fourth fields, 1266,2844, are position relative to 'me', and the fifth, 757, is the altitude. All in metres? If so, I detected G-ZERO at 9k, and lost him at 6k, not too bad for a broadband monopole with indifferent wiring.
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Lee, please could you throw a little light on the current file format? For the following record :-
$PFLAA,0,1266,2844,757,1,C3E566!#G-ZERO#,47,,60,,8*3F
I would guess that the third and fourth fields, 1266,2844, are position relative to 'me', and the fifth, 757, is the altitude. All in metres? If so, I detected G-ZERO at 9k, and lost him at 6k, not too bad for a broadband monopole with indifferent wiring.
Could well the same as documented in this...
http://www.gliding.ch/manuels/flarm_dataport_v3.00_en.pdf
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Lee, please could you throw a little light on the current file format? For the following record :-
$PFLAA,0,1266,2844,757,1,C3E566!#G-ZERO#,47,,60,,8*3F
I would guess that the third and fourth fields, 1266,2844, are position relative to 'me', and the fifth, 757, is the altitude. All in metres? If so, I detected G-ZERO at 9k, and lost him at 6k, not too bad for a broadband monopole with indifferent wiring.
Could well the same as documented in this...
http://www.gliding.ch/manuels/flarm_dataport_v3.00_en.pdf
From the doc linked:-
PFLAA,<AlarmLevel>,<RelativeNorth>,<RelativeEast>,<RelativeVertical>,<IDType>,<ID>,<Track>,<TurnRate>,<GroundSpeed>,<ClimbRate>,<Type>
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Could well the same as documented in this...
http://www.gliding.ch/manuels/flarm_dataport_v3.00_en.pdf
Nice one, thanks.
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Are you near Byfield / Cannons Ashby?
Deker, sorry to alarm you ;) No, I am just north of M1 Junction 15. The ID was set to NN46LA-BASE, as suggested by Lee, but perhaps that looks a little like a US registration during moments of stress. Perhaps GROUND-<postcode> would be better?
Richard
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Hi Richard,
Interesting then, as I think the closest I got to you would have been about 20KM
I was no further east than Turweston.
I'll have to check the track log as I'm sure there was another station much closer, you might of been off screen.
Deker
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Would be good if SD would have a setting to allow the adjustment of the font size, (maybe related to the threat level) at the moment it's far too small to read quickly.
I've asked Tim Dawson about this before, but only on the Flyer forum. I suggested that as well as a setting for your own aircraft, there could be a setting for the size and colour of the traffic aircraft. I've also suggested a white box, bordered in black, around the reg and height details. I've not had a reply on any of this. I haven't asked on the Sky Demon forum though, maybe I should. I'm not even registered on the forum I don't think!
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Lee, please could you throw a little light on the current file format? For the following record :-
$PFLAA,0,1266,2844,757,1,C3E566!#G-ZERO#,47,,60,,8*3F
I would guess that the third and fourth fields, 1266,2844, are position relative to 'me', and the fifth, 757, is the altitude. All in metres? If so, I detected G-ZERO at 9k, and lost him at 6k, not too bad for a broadband monopole with indifferent wiring.
Richard,
I'm still getting my head round decoding these sentences myself, but the main bits of the one you quote above are that the contact 'G-ZERO' is 1266 metres north of you and 2844 metres east at a relative altitude of 757 metres above you. The # # brackets round the callsign denote that this was a P3i contact with the same group ID as yourself (presumably the default 'PAWGRP') transmitting an 'Official ICAO' (defined by the code '1') ID of C3E566 - though a search on G-INFO shows this to be the incorrect ICAO for G-ZERO, so either someone using a made-up callsign in a PAW or G-ZERO with the wrong Hex Address entered in the PAW. As Jeremy says, you can research further information from the FLARM document he posted a link to, as PilotAware uses standard FLARM protocols to pass data to your nav system.
Hope this helps,
Regards
Peter
Edit:- Reading on to the end of the thread after answering this, guess you have probably already sorted this. Note to self - Read the whole thread before answering!! - Sorry.
Interesting to note the apparent conflict between the 'Aircraft Registration' and ICAO Hex ID - unless I am misreading the data of course.
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Interesting then, as I think the closest I got to you would have been about 20KM
I was no further east than Turweston.
Deker, now that I can read the file, G-ZERO was tracked heading approx 040T, from 9KM SW of M1 J15 to 4KM NE, on Sunday, 13:02 local. I suppose it could have been someone pretending to be G-ZERO, the ICAO 24 bit address was C3E566 instead of the correct 402357.
Richard
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Deker, now that I can read the file, G-ZERO was tracked heading approx 040T, from 9KM SW of M1 J15 to 4KM NE, on Sunday, 13:02 local. I suppose it could have been someone pretending to be G-ZERO, the ICAO 24 bit address was C3E566 instead of the correct 402357.
Richard
Hi Richard,
Nope you are correct, I misread your first post- I went to Connington on Sunday as well a bimble on Sat.
I have the random address set ::)
Screen grab of the SD log to show track below.
ATB
Deker.
(http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s443/pumpu9/Screenshot_2016-06-27-07-25-221_zpsgbpik3uw.png)
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Hi Deker,
Some clarity at last - I was beginning to wonder what was going on here. I guessed that C3E566 was a randomly generated 'PAW' hex address, rather than a real one. These are generated to allow PAWs to be potentially used in 'aircraft' which don't have an ICAO hex and Lee took great care to ensure the system can't generate a genuine Hex by accident. I am however confused by why the $PFLAA string reports this as a 'code 1' which implies that it is a 'genuine' ICAO Hex. Perhaps Lee can advise.
Can you confirm that your aircraft Reg is G-ZERO. I would be a bit concerned if aircraft are flying around transmitting 'made-up' Reg/IDs - especially those belonging to someone else - rather than their own allocated ID - as I feel sure would the CAA! Whilst we are using an 'unlicensed' frequency, this does NOT mean we can do as we please. We are still subject to CAP 413 and all other aviation licensing rules and regulations! The last thing we should be doing is risking the wrath of the 'powers that be' by deliberately or erroneously transmitting inaccurate or potentially illegal data.
I really like Richards's suggestion by the way that all ground stations be named 'GROUND - xxxx' as this makes them immediately identifiable as such even to a casual glance at your nav screen.
Best Regards
Peter
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Were you following the Roade? :o
In your position on that map you'd just overflown the Buttermilk Farm strip. It isn't on the map. It's on the bit where the canal goes through the tunnel.
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Hi Deker,
Can you confirm that your aircraft Reg is G-ZERO.
Best Regards
Peter
Hello Peter, Yes, the reg is G-ZERO and the ICAO hex is PAW generated.
It might be helpful for the user guide to include some info on where to find the correct ICAO code for a particular reg (maybe it does and I need to RTFM ;-) ). This is all very high tech geeky stuff (which I love) compared to my old days of drawing fan line on a chart so any help for us dummies would be appreciated :-)
In your position on that map you'd just overflown the Buttermilk Farm strip. It isn't on the map. It's on the bit where the canal goes through the tunnel.
Hi Paul,
I would expect passing at 2,700ft+ (shown in the virtual radar) would not cause an issue with Buttermilk strip?
Regards,
Deker
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Hi Deker,
Can you confirm that your aircraft Reg is G-ZERO.
Best Regards
Peter
Hello Peter, Yes, the reg is G-ZERO and the ICAO hex is PAW generated.
It might be helpful for the user guide to include some info on where to find the correct ICAO code for a particular reg (maybe it does and I need to RTFM ;-) ). This is all very high tech geeky stuff (which I love) compared to my old days of drawing fan line on a chart so any help for us dummies would be appreciated :-)
In your position on that map you'd just overflown the Buttermilk Farm strip. It isn't on the map. It's on the bit where the canal goes through the tunnel.
Hi Paul,
I would expect passing at 2,700ft+ (shown in the virtual radar) would not cause an issue with Buttermilk strip?
Regards,
Deker
According to G-INFO at the CAA your HEX code should be 402357
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I would expect passing at 2,700ft+ (shown in the virtual radar) would not cause an issue with Buttermilk strip?
No issue, just mentioned it for your information, something to look for from the air! :D
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Hello Peter, Yes, the reg is G-ZERO and the ICAO hex is PAW generated.
It might be helpful for the user guide to include some info on where to find the correct ICAO code for a particular reg (maybe it does and I need to RTFM ;-) ). This is all very high tech geeky stuff (which I love) compared to my old days of drawing fan line on a chart so any help for us dummies would be appreciated :-)
Regards,
Deker
Hi Deker,
Point taken. The new PilotAware Operating Manual...
http://www.pilotawarehardware.com/dl/PAWOperationManual.pdf
...does cover inputting your Hex Address (on Page 28) to stop your PAW reacting to your own Transponder (if fitted), but doesn't make it clear that if your aircraft has an official ICAO 'Hex' address, you should in any case preferably replace the randomly automatically generated PAW one with your actual one, whether you have a transponder or not. As Jeremy C says, the correct Hex address for your aircraft is 402357 - derived for UK registered aircraft from the CAA GINFO Database which can be found at...
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=1
I will bring this to Keith's attention for inclusion in the next revision of the Manual.
Regards
Peter
and thanks for clearing up the confusion :) :)
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Thanks Peter
I will make the change when I get back from holidays
Keith
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Hoped to get a few P3i pings from aircraft visiting Expo at Sywell from the south, got three sets over two days, only one with #es in track file, which was G-URMS. The strange thing is that it shows as both G-URMS and GURMS, alternating in batches in the same way as ADS-B Reg-ID and Flight-ID. What is going on here, I didn't think PAW had a way of configuring both types of ID?
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Richard,
Where an aircraft only has a Reg and not a separate Flight ID, PAW displays this in both formats where you have 'Alternate' selected in (Configure).
Regards
Peter
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I presume g-urms also has a mode S transponder.
Pilotaware will associate the data by using the ICAO code.
Looking up on ginfo this is Carl Parkinson who is active
on this forum
Thx
Lee
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Thanks, partially understood. Do Mode-S messages contain an ID string, as well as the ICAO six hex character address, then?
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I flew to Sywell on the Friday.....no contacts on the P3i at all.....I know it was windy and not as many flew in as was anticipated but I thought I would have had one ping !!
G-MASS....... :(
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Let's hope they sold lots of PAWs at Expo, then :) I assume there was a stand.
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Didn't see any representation from PilotAware at the Sywell Expo but I guess the stand space was a fortune to buy and they will be at the LAA one instead like last year !!
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Didn't see any representation from PilotAware at the Sywell Expo but I guess the stand space was a fortune to buy and they will be at the LAA one instead like last year !!
You basically started at £200 per square metre, then built the price up from that. I toyed with it but worked out just too expensive.
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I was getting lots of traffic alerts from the bottom of 21R as I taxied in! :o :D
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Let's hope they sold lots of PAWs at Expo, then :) I assume there was a stand.
Way too expensive I'm afraid, we are trying to run PilotAware as lean as possible.
As Jeremy says £200 / SqM
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Didn't see any representation from PilotAware at the Sywell Expo but I guess the stand space was a fortune to buy and they will be at the LAA one instead like last year !!
Weren't they running it live on the SkyDemon stand ? We've had some enquiries and sold a bunch to people that saw it at Sywell.
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Yes, Sky Demon had it running a big screen.
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As far as I know sky demon have had there own device for a few years now but it's just an ADSB receiver I was always told by Tim when I asked him "Are you going to make that ADSB receiver avalble? Yes was his reply we are develaping it.... " then comes along PAW. So it could be there own device in use, but not sure.
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As far as I know sky demon have had there own device for a few years now but it's just an ADSB receiver I was always told by Tim when I asked him "Are you going to make that ADSB receiver avalble? Yes was his reply we are develaping it.... " then comes along PAW. So it could be there own device in use, but not sure.
No, it was definitely PilotAware :)
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That's good. The divce I had seen on there stand a couple of years ago was probably just used for demo the Sky Demon product. Now they are using the PAW it's a grate advertisement. ;D
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And methinks if he's been 'playing' with it, a great in to get Tim to do the needful so it works the way we want it to!! ;)
Peter