PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: the_top_pilot on June 08, 2016, 03:46:03 pm
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Hello,
In the previous version of the software (engineering release) the mode C/S traffic the aircraft icon changed colour green through to red.
I notice on my new classic the aircraft Icon stays white.
in the traffic listing in the browser I note the signal strength box changes colour with reception strength.
Have I not set my new unit up correctly.
Steve
p.s. I will still be using my old engineering version in parallel with my new classic as the Mode C works well and a great catch all.
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Hello,
In the previous version of the software (engineering release) the mode C/S traffic the aircraft icon changed colour green through to red.
I notice on my new classic the aircraft Icon stays white.
in the traffic listing in the browser I note the signal strength box changes colour with reception strength.
Have I not set my new unit up correctly.
Steve
p.s. I will still be using my old engineering version in parallel with my new classic as the Mode C works well and a great catch all.
Hi Steve,
Presume you are using SkyDemon, I don't recall the details (exfirepro may recall), but the threat level does not seem to alter the color in the display, it is dependant on something else as well.
I think I need to check with Tim Dawson how to highlight the A/C differently
Could it have been related to not providing the rings around the aircraft - I would have to investigate TBH
Thx
Lee
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Yes I am using Sky Demon.
Steve
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Here' a screen shot of an aircraft I watched on final, while waiting to depart at Shoreham.
The grab was as DW crossed the numbers and shows him in white.
Not sure why the glide safe ring was showing as I was stationary, but that's a SD 'thing'
(http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s443/pumpu9/Screenshot_2016-06-05-17-24-391_zpsf8xjuilj.png)
I did see a number of mode S contacts displayed on the screen while enroute, but the tiny overlaid aircraft is hardly attention grabbing to the point of being nearly useless, so I'm planning to get the audio connected ASAP.
ATB
Deker.
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Hi Guys,
Now I'm getting really confused! (Not difficult these days).
You are correct Steve! In the early engineering versions Lee replaced the standard SD warning rings with the little piggy-backed aircraft denoting a Mode S contact, which appeared first as green, then changed to 'amber' and 'red' if the contact continued to approach - in line with the alert trigger levels. I still have the screen grabs to show this and loved it!
Sometime between 14th and 16th January something changed and this stopped happening. IIRC it was at or about the time Lee introduced the 'on screen' display of alternating Reg/Flight ID. I remember having a conversation with Lee about this which went along the lines that SkyDemon can't process these plus relative altitude and the colour changes, so for some reason the colour change went by the board. I raised this on the SD forum and got the reply from Tim Dawson that this change was nothing to do with SkyDemon. I am myself still disappointed about this loss as I found the colour changing symbols a great help in bringing the contacts to my attention as the main thing I look at on SD while flying is the position of my own aircraft - so this is the best place to quickly pick up a visual alert.
We are of course compensated to a degree by the provision of the Audio Alerts, though I still miss the little coloured symbols as audio alerts can easily get lost in the clutter if radio traffic is busy.
I did try via both the SD and 'Flyer' forums to get Tim Dawson to work with Lee on this, but so far it appears no luck. Contrast this with EasyVFR, who positively and actively changed their software to provide colour changing 'traffic light' banner alerts specifically to show the PilotAware Mode S contacts (Tim D please note!).
The other reason I am now even more confused, is that Like Deker, I am also using SD, but I definitely don't get that ring round my aircraft when a Mode S alert is received. I was under the impression that your PAW 'piggybacked aircraft symbols' were specifically designed to stop the standard SD 'ring' appearing as it was misleading - suggesting a 'safe zone' around your aircraft - Lee?
Deker, as you say, without the colour changing aircraft (or EasyVFR's 'traffic light banners'), the audio alerts become essential for Bearingless Targets !
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Hi Peter
I think your recall is correct, i will go back and investigatethe reg flightid thing
Regarding the ring quoted by Deker, I think that is unrelated, that looks like the glide ring, could be wrong
Thx
Lee
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Hi Lee,
Edit: Duh! if I had read Deker's post properly I would have seen that bit - what an idiot!!
Yes, looks like the glide ring to me too. IIRC there is a set of settings to define when you want to show the glide ring Deker. I have it set for over water only, very reassuring provided you have set your glide ratio etc accurately - especially over the Channel, or in my case when low flying over the Forth Estuary (near Edinburgh)! I just got it confused with the 'official' SD bearingless target rings - which BTW I have never seen except in their operating bumf !!
Regards
Peter
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Hi,
It gave me a little giggle to see the glide safe ring while stationary at zero feet ;D
I think SD brings up the glide safe within a certain distance of the water, which I would have been at Shoreham, but the Sky Demon calculation must have a glitch as I was't moving.
Obviously nothing to do with PAW, just an observation.
I'm now looking for a simple way to plug / tee into the audio using the standard 1/4" phono socket on the shareoplane.
ATB Deker.
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Hi Deker,
Easiest way might be to try making up a short 1/4" 'inline' jack-to-socket 'jump lead' and parallel in a cable from the PAW using the connection info myself and Jeremy Curtis posted here:
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,376.msg5117.html#msg5117
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,420.0.html
The only issue might be the levels, but I believe others have already tried this satisfactorily. Sorry I can't help with the pinouts for your (presumably GA) headphones, though this information should be readily available.
Regards
Peter
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the tiny overlaid aircraft is hardly attention grabbing to the point of being nearly useless
Yarp.
I much preferred the rings - in fact, one of my PAWs has the engineering software with the rings and I much prefer it, apart from having to try and spot where the altitude is around the ring. Maybe there could be fixed sized green/yellow/orange/red rings which show up around your aeroplane - that way there's no confusion on range, but a better indication of a bearingless target.
It means you don't get confused about a non-bearingless target being immediately above or below you.
I don't know if it's possible to get the rings and the aircraft ID?
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Maybe there could be fixed sized green/yellow/orange/red rings which show up around your aeroplane - that way there's no confusion on range, but a better indication of a bearingless target.
We would have to get SD to implement such a feature, at the moment the size of the ring alters with pinch and zoom (because it is range based), which is the problem.
thx
Lee
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That's fine, just make it a small ring! :)
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Hi Peter (and all)
you recollection was correct, I just tried removing the REG from the imprecise traffic I send to SkyDemon, and now it is highlighted red/amber/green (again)
The downside, EasyVFR now only displays a banner in red/amber/green with relative height, but does not display the REG.
(your damned if you do, your damned if you dont)
So, what could we do here ?
1. We could lobby SD, EasyVFR, RunwayHD, to accept the REG without ignoring the threat level
2. I could make PilotAware behaviorally different for each vendor - (something I am reluctant to do)
(2) above can be accomplished by assigning each NAV tool a different PIN, eg
6000 - SkyDemon
6001 - RunwayHD
6002 - EasyVFR
....
Then I can behave slightly differently because I know what NAV tool I am talking to, this is not ideal because it means
messages are being interpreted differently
Thx
Lee
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2. I could make PilotAware behaviorally different for each vendor - (something I am reluctant to do)
(2) above can be accomplished by assigning each NAV tool a different PIN, eg
6000 - SkyDemon
6001 - RunwayHD
6002 - EasyVFR
....
Then I can behave slightly differently because I know what NAV tool I am talking to, this is not ideal because it means
messages are being interpreted differently
What would be the issue if someone used the wrong PIN? People don't often read manuals, so might just use a PIN from another bit of documentation.
If you did go down this route, I would generate a quick start connection document for SkyDemon, Runway HD etc. Ideally no longer than a couple of sides of A4, people can then just pick the one that is for them.
Out of interest, what does the Reg number give you in this situation, are you really going to read it and make a radio call to them?
Or when an alert arrives get a general direction or just a range warning for bearing less etc. start looking outside for what ever it is?
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Don't you dare upset my lovely functioning EasyVFR for the sake of SD. :( Everyone will just have to ditch SkyDemon and join EVFR if Mr Dawson won't play nicely. ;D ;D ;D
Alan
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Hi Peter (and all)
you recollection was correct, I just tried removing the REG from the imprecise traffic I send to SkyDemon, and now it is highlighted red/amber/green (again)
The downside, EasyVFR now only displays a banner in red/amber/green with relative height, but does not display the REG.
(your damned if you do, your damned if you dont)
So, what could we do here ?
1. We could lobby SD, EasyVFR, RunwayHD, to accept the REG without ignoring the threat level
2. I could make PilotAware behaviorally different for each vendor - (something I am reluctant to do)
(2) above can be accomplished by assigning each NAV tool a different PIN, eg
6000 - SkyDemon
6001 - RunwayHD
6002 - EasyVFR
....
Then I can behave slightly differently because I know what NAV tool I am talking to, this is not ideal because it means
messages are being interpreted differently
Thx
Lee
Lee,
As we already know, except for relative altitude we can't provide positional information for bearingless targets.
Our first and most important duty is therefore to give a simple and immediate indication to the pilot of the presence of a bearingless target and an indication of the level of threat presented, in order to get pilots looking outside the aircraft and finding and 'dealing with' any threat which becomes significant. In the case of ADSB / P3i, this is done automatically by the 'eye catching' moving visual graphic, normally well before it presents any significant risk.
Based on nearly 40 years service as an emergency services trainer, I am in no doubt whatsoever that (second only to motion) colour changing alert symbols - whether in the form of piggybacked aircraft, EasyVFR type 'Banner Alerts' or Paul's colour changing 'rings' - provide the quickest and most effective method of achieving this objective 'at a glance'.
With the exception of the EasyVFR 'banners', the only system providing risk level based alert for bearingless traffic at present is the audio alert sequence. This, however, is totally dependent on the PAW audio being properly connected to our aircraft audio systems and can be easily obscured by heavy radio or other audio traffic or simply turned off, e.g. by simply pulling the plug. In the event of loss of the audio alerts we are at present left only with a small immobile white graphic symbol, a relative altitude and a REG - which (although 'nice to know') is to my mind of minimal value in collision avoidance terms and which (unless you can get Tim Dawson to re-programme SkyDemon - which seems unlikely) I would happily lose in favour of getting back what was a clear graphic warning indicating the presence, relative altitude and degree of risk presented by the threat.
This would finally give us combined audio prompts and visual alerts, jointly indicating the degree of risk, supported by the relative altitude to guide the pilot's direction of search and advise on the likely course of action to maintain or increase separation to avoid collision.
REG or Visual threat level indication - IMHO No contest whatsoever.
Give us back the colour changing symbols, Please....
Alan, all you will lose is the REG, you will still have the colour changing banners!
Regards
Peter
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I vote for (1), get Tim Dawson to code it.
While he's at it, can you ask him to put the option of a white box around the traffic data so the reg/relative height can be read more easily?
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Hi Peter,
I am also an EVFR user. Having the REG displayed on a threat banner is useful because it enables you to keep track of that particular threat, particularly if there then become multiple threats displayed..
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Hi Chris,
I totally agree, being able to see the REG of the other aircraft can be very 'useful', especially with multiple or 'known' contacts - if you know you are on the same frequency you can put out a position report, for example, to let the other aircraft know where you are. Knowing the level of risk presented by an aircraft you can't see, however, I regard as essential.
My point is that if (as seems to be the case) we can't have both I would always recommend default to the colour changing threat level warning we previously had until we can get Sky Demon to give us what we actually want. So far, for some reason, Tim Dawson doesn't seem to want to play - and he does know what we are trying to do because I told him!
Don't look at it as a potential loss, simply a short term sacrifice for (hopefully) long term gain for us all. Remember, you might just be the aircraft we SkyDemon users don't 'see' quickly enough and there are an awful lot of SkyDemon users out there!
Happy and safe flying
Regards
Peter
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Hi
Take the Easy way. When your SD licence is about to run out have a serious look at EasyVFR.
As far as I can see it has all the major features of SD, the developers work well with their users and have already had good co-operation with Lee and its less expensive. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Works for me!!!
Alan
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I haven't trawled through all the posts on here but is the audio alert feature a wired output from PAW? I think it is.
Does anyone know if SD provides any kind of audio alert for PAW detected aircraft, like it does if you are approaching CAS etc.?
I can hear SD alerts from my Samsung S3 quite well even with my headset on. Just enough to know SD wants my attention!
Tony N
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Tony,
PAW audio needs to be wired from the Pi audio jack. There have been a couple of requests for bluetooth, but Lee has said that would require major rework of the software, so not imminent.
Sorry, I don't know what SD provides by way of audio out. Flying an open cockpit flexwing I have always just relied on SD's banner alerts for prompts. I will investigate.
Regards meantime
Peter
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There are some Bluetooth audio transmitters available cheaply. They are self powered or run off USB. Add one of these and bingo a bluetooth PAW.
Steve
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There are some Bluetooth audio transmitters available cheaply. They are self powered or run off USB. Add one of these and bingo a bluetooth PAW.
Steve
I thought about this, but if you are using bluetooth headsets - who does the negotation ?
in other words you normally have some menu dialog on your host device that browses for BT devices and connects.
In this instance you effectively have 2 devices, how do they get connected ?
If it is your iPad or iPhone, not a problemn, but for a Bluetooth headset, the smarts need to be added to pilotaware to
browse to your headset and connect
Thx
Lee
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I believe with this sort of thing:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5mm-Bluetooth-Music-Transmitter-Stereo-Audio-A2DP-Adapter-Dongle-AUX-Sender-/222120761313 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5mm-Bluetooth-Music-Transmitter-Stereo-Audio-A2DP-Adapter-Dongle-AUX-Sender-/222120761313)
You just press buttons for pairing with the receiver/headset. It would probably do the trick, but not as tidy as a proper coded bluetooth solution! :)
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From the Mode C thread but very relevant here so dragged it across -
There was a discussion on another thread regarding Mode-S and the fact that we could display the following data
REG + ALT
or
ALT
Now call me a sceptic, but I believe if you are told a REG and an ALT, eg G-ABCD +200ft, you are much more likely to believe the validity of the information as opposed to an <ANONYMOUS> ALT, which I am sure many would put down to bugs / RF noise, if after many attempted sightings, nothing was forthcoming.
Lee
Good point Lee, you are of course correct, though for bearingless targets, threat level will always outweigh almost anything else (except relative height of course) - especially as we already had the threat levels displayed before you added the displayed 'REG' back in January - which is where this thread started.
Looks like we need to try another approach to Tim to try to persuade him to help sort this out. Maybe the 'threat' of customers moving over to EasyVFR might encourage him to work with you. Not that I'm suggesting trying to threaten him - obviously.
Regards
Peter
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I think during the 'early' days of this type f development, it is difficult to get all vendors to agree on the data format, until the technology starts to mature a little more.
So thinking on this a little further, I think the best approach is to have a default behavior in terms of the messages which are sent to the NAV device for depiction.
in addition to the ability to choose the best suited to the specific device, when the device PIN is selected to be one of the following
NAV_SKYDEMON = 6000,
NAV_RUNWAYHD = 6001,
NAV_EASYVFR = 6002,
NAV_AIRNAVPRO = 6003,
so for example if you use EasyVFR/6000 - the banner will only show ALT-DIFF
but if you select EasyVFR/6002 - the banner will show REG/ALT-DIFF
and in the case of SkyDemon/6000 then the overlaid A/C will be colored
This allows further bespoke changes to be made if necessary
Thx
Lee
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Lee,
Can we move the 'bluetooth' stuff to a different thread before we get things even more complicated than they already are.
This is getting messy and I have a feeling bluetooth will run on and on.
Peter
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Bluetooth Audio moved here
http://forum.pilotaware.com/index.php/topic,483.0.html