PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chris-TT on May 17, 2016, 01:37:22 pm
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Received my unit this morning as promised! The unit seems to work except for the dongle. I actually have this exact same dongle for another unit I'm building, and was having problems getting a fix with that one too.
With CollisionAware the unit is working fine if I unplug the dongle, however with the GPS dongle inserted it won't find more than 3 satellites, and its been sat in the garden for 2 hours now. Any advice on how to get a fix, or have I been really unlucky and received 2 faulty dongles?
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Hi Chris,
The dongle which shipped with the unit would definitely have been working when it was dispatched.
There are a lengthy set of automated installation checks which run checking on all of the interfaces.
If the GPS had not managed to get a good lock, then many other tests would have failed in addition
to the GPS failure
I am not an _expert_ on these matters but if the GPS needs to reload its ephemeris data this can take a while, how long has it been running, and I presume it has a good view of the sky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_first_fix
Thx
Lee
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I've been trying it out today with an iPad.. Definitely not as good as the internal iPad GPS. Shame because SD seems to only use PAW for traffic if you 'go flying' with the Flarm source selected, so that means the navigation is now reliant on the PAW GPS receiver, not just traffic. I know that's an SD problem. Would be nice if traffic was separated from Location Services.
I'll try on Android tomorrow.
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I haven't tried with the unit I got today, but with the unit I built about 3/12 ago, the GPS dongle was better than the iPad's own. How can you tell how many satellites it's picked up?
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Hi
Definitely not as good as the internal iPad GPS
Thanks for the feedback, could you explain a bit more regarding what is different ?
Thx
Lee
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I can only get the 'searching for satellites' on my SkyDemon with Nexus 7. I put it down to me as anything to do with computers goes wrong and I cannot get in touch with the grandchildren.
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I can only get the 'searching for satellites' on my SkyDemon with Nexus 7. I put it down to me as anything to do with computers goes wrong and I cannot get in touch with the grandchildren.
Hi
Is this related to the ublox on PilotAware, I am confused
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Received my unit this morning as promised! The unit seems to work except for the dongle. I actually have this exact same dongle for another unit I'm building, and was having problems getting a fix with that one too.
With CollisionAware the unit is working fine if I unplug the dongle, however with the GPS dongle inserted it won't find more than 3 satellites, and its been sat in the garden for 2 hours now. Any advice on how to get a fix, or have I been really unlucky and received 2 faulty dongles?
Lee,
I thought the reason it was decided to drop CollisionAware in favour of use of the GPS dongle (or mouse) was that the CollisionAware App was proving unreliable. Surely trying to use both will cause a conflict.
Is it not more likely that new users are simply not waiting long enough for the dongle to load initial Ephemeris data. IIRC my early attempts, the dongle needed to be set up with a clear view of the sky to the south and left in some cases for up to an hour before it started reporting useable data.
Regards
Peter
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Peter
You are absolutely correct, using two GPS sources is not a good idea.
I was also concerned about the ephemeris data, but have not yet heard a follow up from Chris
Thx
Lee
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I can only get the 'searching for satellites' on my SkyDemon with Nexus 7. I put it down to me as anything to do with computers goes wrong and I cannot get in touch with the grandchildren.
Lee,
Assuming Nexus is correctly connected to the PAW WiFi, sounds like Sky Demon is not properly set up to connect to 'FLARM' (i.e. the 6000 code in connectivity settings). Or am I missing something else.
Peter
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I have exactly the same problem. The GPS dongle has been sitting in view of the sky for nearly 5 hours. As I understand the dongle should flash green when it has a fix, it doesn't. Log on via a browser 192...... and the home screen gives a status of 'satellites = 0'. If you then use the old fashioned CollisionAware on an iPad and SkyDemon then there is an error displayed of Multiple GPS sources. The CollisionAware is however linked to the iPad Location Services and then using SkyDemon and GO Flying and FLARM services does give traffic information clearly. HOWEVER frequently SkDemon flashes up searching for satellites, this is not very good as at that point your location is lost. As stated before if you Select Location Services from the Go Flying option then there is no traffic data displayed. I hasten to add Connectivity is set up correctly on the SkyDemon (latest version).
This is somewhat concerning as the previous system I built which I will present to the Flying club for ATC worked pretty damn well. Something has failed somewhere.
I have also tried under settings of changing Port 3 to GPS instead of Auto, however baud rate is still 4800.
I don't actually need the GPS fix for ADS-B output sourced from my GPS but of course I do for the Bridge unit.
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Hi drvale
Can you please post a screenshot of the home page, you have posted under ublox7, I want to see it is correctly recognized
Thx
Lee
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I am wondering if these are power problems causing a brown out.
Can you both confirm you have them connected to supplies that can deliver 2A and you are using the cable supplied?
They were all tested here on the test rack, each was tested with the actual parts that went in the box with it. So each has actually been run up and tested by a hardware test program we have that verifies all the components.
The only thing I can think would be different would be the power supply.
David Styles
PilotAware Hardware.
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Hi Chris,
The dongle which shipped with the unit would definitely have been working when it was dispatched.
There are a lengthy set of automated installation checks which run checking on all of the interfaces.
If the GPS had not managed to get a good lock, then many other tests would have failed in addition
to the GPS failure
I am not an _expert_ on these matters but if the GPS needs to reload its ephemeris data this can take a while, how long has it been running, and I presume it has a good view of the sky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_first_fix
Thx
Lee
Assuming the u-blox engine in the dongle is the EVA range they should acquire from a cold start in under 60 seconds. I have dev kit with the NEO8 series and performing a cold start on that today, with an antenna in the window of my office that faces NW, it acquired in 45 seconds.
The ident string from the USB enumeration is the same as that for the EVA, so providing here is a half decent signal they should acquire quite quickly.
They are very sensitive to power, and the dongle itself will have a converter to drop the 5v USB to 3.3v, the EVA can peak at 100ma. Depending on the spec of that regulator if the power at the USB is too low it will not operate effectively at all.
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I left the unit on all night, but not outside and there was no difference this morning. However when I plug in a USB extension lead I get 7 satellites and a 3D fix without any problems and all works. Remove the extension lead and plug the GPS dongle directly into the Pi and I momentarily may get 4 satellites but mostly 0. So I guess I am getting some shielding effect. When installed for real use then the GPS dongle will be on a USB extension lead so the Pi can be positioned protected from the sun.
Power supply is currently a mains iPad transformer (not an iPhone charger).
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I'm having the same problem as described.
I'm using an iPAD. UBlox GPS showing as available and receiving messages but no mode or satellites or at best 2-3 satellites. No flashing green light indicating GPS lock.
The GPS I'm using is the standard UBlox and was working on previous version of software but seem to have problems now.
Power supply and cable provide 2.4amp capacity so don't think that is the problem.
Screen shot posted direct to Lee as too large to attach.
Alan
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I left the unit on all night, but not outside and there was no difference this morning. However when I plug in a USB extension lead I get 7 satellites and a 3D fix without any problems and all works. Remove the extension lead and plug the GPS dongle directly into the Pi and I momentarily may get 4 satellites but mostly 0. So I guess I am getting some shielding effect. When installed for real use then the GPS dongle will be on a USB extension lead so the Pi can be positioned protected from the sun.
Power supply is currently a mains iPad transformer (not an iPhone charger).
Thats strange, can I ask which slot you are inserting the GPS Dongle, is it the same as per the guide here ?
http://pilotawarehardware.com/dl/QuickStart.pdf
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Hi all,
Very frustrating - I did experience this briefly with one of my beta test units when I first tried to get it running indoors. (Over the Beta test period, I built 4 units and have since used them with both the GPS dongle and a remote 'mouse' version without any problems, so this will just be a temporary glitch)
It seems to be critical, especially for initial startup, that the unit has a good clear view of the sky to the south (where most of the satellites are) and even then, it can still take a considerable time for the gps to establish its 'ephemeris' data (i.e. work out where it is). This is not normally a problem with subsequent operation.
The establishment of initial 'ephemeris' data can fail if you try to do it inside. To check progress, you can monitor satellite acquisition on the configuration screen once you get your tablet connected to the PAW WiFi.
Probably a silly question, but I take it you have tried removing power and rebooting out in the open?
If not, definitely worth a try. If that doesn't work, don't get disheartened - Lee and Dave will sort it out for you!
Regards
Peter
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Funnily enough, when I first made mine and tested indoors, I found that it wouldn't pick up the satellites. I also found, as above, that if I moved the GPS onto a USB extension that it worked better. However, I don't get any problems in the aeroplane with the GPS plugged directly into the PI. I assume/assumed that the Wifi dongle will deafen the GPS, so I have my DVB-T dongle underneath the GPS and the wifi dongle alongside the DVB-T. I haven't looked at the guide yet to see if that's what's recommended! :D
Edit: It isn't.
I have the GPS in the slot above (1), the DVB-T in (1) and the Wifi in (2).
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Hi Chris,
The dongle which shipped with the unit would definitely have been working when it was dispatched.
There are a lengthy set of automated installation checks which run checking on all of the interfaces.
If the GPS had not managed to get a good lock, then many other tests would have failed in addition
to the GPS failure
I am not an _expert_ on these matters but if the GPS needs to reload its ephemeris data this can take a while, how long has it been running, and I presume it has a good view of the sky
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_first_fix
Thx
Lee
Hi Lee,
I had a play for another 3 hours yesterday, I even plugged the dongle into my laptop, downloaded the Ublox U-centre software, tried using the AssistNow feature, and still couldn't get a fix. I've got it outside pointing south at the moment, plugged into slot 3 (above the wifi adapter), and it's still not getting a fix. I'm using your cable, and I've tried both a 2.1amp power bank, and an iPad charger.
Chris
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I had a friend drop by briefly with his new PAW today, tinkering in the office the dongle would not get a signal although other GPS receivers in there could. Once the unit was outside the office, facing NW, it acquired in about 45 seconds.
That does look like an iffy dongle.
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It seems bizarre to have 2 faulty ones though, I already have one exactly the same for the original unit I'm building which doesn't seem to work ether.
Taking money out of the equation what is the very best USB Dongle which is compatible? Ideally one which remembers where the satellites are?
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It seems bizarre to have 2 faulty ones though, I already have one exactly the same for the original unit I'm building which doesn't seem to work ether.
Taking money out of the equation what is the very best USB Dongle which is compatible? Ideally one which remembers where the satellites are?
It can happen. Whilst these should have a u-Blox chip inside I've not taken one apart to physically check...
Some modules will keep an almanac for a day or two, but it isn't precise just a kind of primer to speed up acquisition. Modern GPS receivers will acquire from cold/factory in a couple of minutes or less with a good view if the sky.
Don't go out and buy one until Lee can confirm what USB drivers are within the PAW product itself or it may not work. Personally I'd go for an external unit on a cable, so it can always be positioned for optional view and stuck down.
Come to think about that for a minute, I would urge anyone putting a PilotAware into a cockpit to have some means of holding things down. In the event of turbulence, or worse, having bits flying around isn't going to make your day get any better.
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When I was beta testing, I bought one of the Ublox7 dongles and it was never terribly reliable. I had dialogue with Lee about it and elected to use a different 'mouse type' GPS/GLONASS GPS that was on the end of a cable rather than a dongle.
I dismantled the dongle and I believe(d) there was an issue with the 'antenna' in the dongle; it certainly wasn't terribly well manufactured and I attempted a repair on the antenna and it did improve matters a bit but it was never a patch on either the in-built GPS in the iPad, my Bad Elf or the cheap Chinese 'mouse type' GPS that I eventually used for all PAW testing.
There was a belief that perhaps not all of the UBLOX7 GPS dongles were all the same, made by different manufacturers but they all look externally alike.
Cannot comment about those supplied with the new kit as mine hasn't arrived yet, but I am hoping my old GPS Mouse will still work as I didn't want to rely on the UBLOX dongle
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Well the good news is I just got a fix, I left it for another 10 minutes just to let its database populate… I then turned it to North, and lost all satellites.
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Best only go in a southerly direction then.!!
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I probably should mention this was outside too...
Its still outside, and has only found 3 satellites. I think I have a faulty one, I'd much rather spend a bit more and get a decent one that Lee's going to keep supporting rather than only flying South 8)
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Firstly, thanks to Lee and David for sorting my SD card problem; excellent service.
Like others, I'm having difficulty finding satellites when the GPS dongle is connected directly to the Pi. If I run a USB extension lead I get a signal.
Secondly, the DVB dongle gets rather warm. Is this normal?
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Have you tried the positions for the dongles in my post above?
Top left: GPS
Bottom left: DVB-T
Bottom right: Wifi
And yes, the DVB-T dongle does get a bit hot.
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Hi David,
could you change to Pauls recommendation and see if that helps ?
We may change the recommendation of placement if it helps as a few are having problems with it.
I must admit that our test ones sometimes take up to 5 mins to get a fix *on the ground* but we just leave them to it and they do.
regards
David Styles
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Hi, I tried Paul's recommendation and various other combinations. Paul's configuration is a bit better but the signal still tends to drop (I'm doing this from inside my conservatory as it's raining). I've tried an alternative GPS dongle (ND-100S) and get similar results. With the USB extension cable connected everything is fine so, as others have said, I suspect a bit of mutual interference going on. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a non-issue when outside/flying with the prospect of a stronger GPS signal.
Anyway, thanks again for the product and all your help.
David
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I get very patchy GPS reception when the PAW is on my downstairs windowsill. It's a bit better on the upstairs windowsill, but a lot better when I use a USB extension. However out in the open or in the air, the standard PI and dongle work well...so much so that the altitude on my GPS readout seems to exactly match my altimeter.
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Hi, I tried Paul's recommendation and various other combinations. Paul's configuration is a bit better but the signal still tends to drop (I'm doing this from inside my conservatory as it's raining). I've tried an alternative GPS dongle (ND-100S) and get similar results. With the USB extension cable connected everything is fine so, as others have said, I suspect a bit of mutual interference going on. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a non-issue when outside/flying with the prospect of a stronger GPS signal.
Anyway, thanks again for the product and all your help.
David
GPS really hates attenuation. Everybody thinks it should work fine indoors on window sills etc because their phones appear to. Phones cheat! They use triangulation from the masts as well.
With pure GPS you'll notice a difference on the window sill if you open the window!
I'm not surprised it's flaky inside a double glazed conservatory covered in water. It will be interesting to see how it improves. There is a marked difference for me in my back garden to when I'm stood outside the clubhouse at the airfield just due to the amount of sky visible.
I cannot get a GPS fix on window sills at the back of the house, but can at the front, which must be due to some sort of shielding of the sky by the other properties around me.
The conclusion of this thread will be useful.
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I ventured into the sodden wastelands of central Marlow. Definitely better GPS signal with or without USB cable. My ND-100S gets a position fix slightly quicker than the supplied Ublox-7 but I'm now being really picky :D
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7247/27051836972_bd92b1f08d_c.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7710/27078075441_e4cd58bc1c_c.jpg)
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OMG Dave, you've got Timothy heading straight for you! :o ;D
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Hi Dave,
Nice to hear things are finally working for you. Good test images. I presume you know you can filter ADSB in SD to remove the high level stuff if you don't want to see it. Similar filters are provided on the [Config] page of PAW for Mode S.
As I have said elsewhere, during testing at home I used the standard plug-in Ublox (as now supplied with the kit), but for my aircraft (a GT450 flexwing) I now have the PAW fitted up inside the pod, with a VK162 gps mouse (as now available from PAW Hardware) mounted in the clear on the outside of the pod and have had no significant problems.
Best Regards
Peter
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I’ve bought one of the GPS mice and it seems to have solved the problems I was having.
I’m ready to properly test in the cockpit the next couple of days. I’ve covered the top of my power pack in velcro, and then attached the Pilot Aware unit, GPS mouse, and ADS-B antenna with velcro. I’ve also attached a non-slip matt to the bottom of the power pack. It seems pretty sturdy, I just placed it on my dashboard, and went for a drive, it stayed in place without moving at all! I just need to think of the best way to tidy the cables up now
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Hi Chris,
Nice one - Looks very neat. Cables aren't so easy to deal with, mine is all hidden behind the dash inside my pod, so not so much of a problem.
Just one safety point, IIRC someone else on here (possibly Dave Styles) already put out a warning to make sure everything is firmly fixed down in the cockpit, so you might need to consider a couple of judiciously placed bits of 'Velcro' as well as the non slip matt to ensure everything stays in place if you hit severe turbulence.
Regards
Peter
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Thanks Peter,
Unfortunately it's a club aircraft so attaching velcro to the aircraft is not really an option. However I flew today and it fit very snugly on the dash of a PA28. I did some steep turns, and there was quite a lot of turbulence, it didn't move whatsoever! In-fact its so snug I don't think it could go anywhere. I easily sorted the cable problem with velcro straps, everyone else who saw the unit today was impressed with how the PilotAware looks.
GPS worked very well today with no drop-outs, I saw quite a few aircraft on my SkyDemon thanks to the PilotAware unit, but I'm not sure if it's picking up Mode-S. It should have picked up my aircraft, but didn't. The aircraft is equipped with Mode-S, and 'Flightradar24' certainly picked it up.
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Hi Chris,
but not sure if it's picking up Mode-S, as it should have picked up my aircraft as 'Flightradar24' certainly was.
Mode-S is OFF by default, you have to set it to enabled in the Configure menu - not sure if you did that ?
Thx
Lee
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Ahh ok thanks Lee, it will teach me not to read up on documentation properly! I'm flying over to the Channel Islands in the next week or so, I'll read up, and hopefully have everything sorted by then!