PilotAware
British Forum => Technical Support => Topic started by: neilmurg on November 14, 2024, 01:50:29 pm
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Is this the right place? Feel free to relocate
Installed the FX this week. I'm VERY PLEASED with it so far, I wish we'd upgraded sooner. ATM we are using the existing internal remote aerials mounted high on the front windscreen. I have some observations, questions and advice requests:
Observations
1 The FX seems much better at receiving signals than the Rosetta. It worked fine in the house before installing. I used to have to setup the Rosetta outside to get GPS / aircraft signals. (I do have a ATOM Grid ground station on the roof of the house).
2 The FX seems to hold on to traffic better (not have them disappear/re-appear), this means fewer but more accurate call outs of more traffic.
3 I haven't fitted external aerials yet, that's next week / during the annual.
4 The condition lights are a very useful visual confirmation, especially for the HotSpot / internet routing. Hotspot seems to work better.
6 I've noticed more traffic pretending to be Motor Gliders, is that because it's the default in the setup?
Questions
1 On FX, Does removing the WiFi password disable the WiFi? That is the implication of the messaging, so I left it alone.
2 Is there no PAw traffic voice anymore? (We wired the PAw into our Audio Panel). We don't need it, we use SD voice these days and Bluetooth an SD tablet to the Audio Panel.
3 When will I be able to download flight tracks again (.trk). I think the website says 1/2024, does it mean 1/2025?
4 It would be nice if I got a clear summary numbers of what traffic I receive ie whether: Direct/ATOM Grid/iGrid/SkyGrid
5 I noticed frozen traffic on the FX in the pattern last night. I've seen that before on a Rosetta beta release (since solved), is it the same 'persistence after signal lost' problem? It lead to a lot of dire traffic warnings, which was distracting from other traffic. I'd notice the a/c freeze on the first circuit, so it wasn't too bad. It disappeared by the next circuit.
6 The Radar screen seems reluctant to count ground stations in the top left count box. Even when they show on the FX Radar and on SD.
7 Is it 'Pilotaware Rosetta FX'? Wouldn't 'Pilotaware FX' be better / clearer? I realise it might be a copyright thing.
Advice request
1 External Aerial positioning; we're planning on putting them to the rear of the lower fuselage (Fuji FA200), at least 50cm away from the ADSB/Xponder. I presume the lower the better to see forward below the engine (the tail section rises slightly).
2 Can we take a feed off the Garmin 430/G5 GPS aerial? We are assuming not ATM and using the supplied GPS puck
3 It will be wired into the 12V electrical system with an On/Off switch - comments / hints?
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After further reading:
Q2 Correct, no native PAw traffic voice on FX
Also https://www.pilotaware.com/fx -> Accessories (menu item), is spelt incorrectly.
If anyone has feedback on external antenna positions, I'd be grateful. Some in out group have suggested farther back towards the tail to make the arc shadowed by the engine smaller. I'm more in favour on lowest part of the Fuselage, under the passenger seating positions, to put the engine 'higher' and better forward visibility. (and 50cm away from existing transponder antenna).
With the internal antenna we could try different positions, but for external, I'd prefer to keep the number of holes drilled in the fuselage to a minimum.
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Hi Neil
Installed the FX this week. I'm VERY PLEASED with it so far, I wish we'd upgraded sooner.
I’m pleased to hear you’re enjoying the FX—feedback like this makes all the hard work worthwhile!
Questions
1 On FX, Does removing the WiFi password disable the WiFi? That is the implication of the messaging, so I left it alone.
No, it simply creates an open Wi-Fi network that anyone can access.
2 Is there no PAw traffic voice anymore? (We wired the PAw into our Audio Panel). We don't need it, we use SD voice these days and Bluetooth an SD tablet to the Audio Panel.
Correct, the FX doesn’t include an onboard audio circuit. Most users now prefer voice alerts from EFBs like SD via Bluetooth. That said, we’re open to revisiting this if demand for native audio grows.
3 When will I be able to download flight tracks again (.trk). I think the website says 1/2024, does it mean 1/2025?
Currently, flight playbacks are accessible via the ground station tool. We may reintroduce onboard track files in the future.
4 It would be nice if I got a clear summary numbers of what traffic I receive ie whether: Direct/ATOM Grid/iGrid/SkyGrid
This is on our radar! The challenge is balancing a clean interface with detailed data, but it’s something we’ll explore further.
5 I noticed frozen traffic on the FX in the pattern last night. I've seen that before on a Rosetta beta release (since solved), is it the same 'persistence after signal lost' problem? It lead to a lot of dire traffic warnings, which was distracting from other traffic. I'd notice the a/c freeze on the first circuit, so it wasn't too bad. It disappeared by the next circuit.
Please DM me with the time and location data so we can investigate further.
6 The Radar screen seems reluctant to count ground stations in the top left count box. Even when they show on the FX Radar and on SD.
This issue has been resolved and will be addressed in the next update.
7 Is it 'Pilotaware Rosetta FX'? Wouldn't 'Pilotaware FX' be better / clearer? I realise it might be a copyright thing.
The official name is PilotAware FX.
1 External Aerial positioning; we're planning on putting them to the rear of the lower fuselage (Fuji FA200), at least 50cm away from the ADSB/Xponder. I presume the lower the better to see forward below the engine (the tail section rises slightly).
Mounting them toward the rear lower fuselage, as planned, should work well. Keeping separation from the transponder antenna is also a good idea.
2 Can we take a feed off the Garmin 430/G5 GPS aerial? We are assuming not ATM and using the supplied GPS puck
No, please use the supplied GPS antenna.
Make sure you post your VECTOR here once you've fullly installed the FX.
Thanks,
Ashley
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Thanks Ashley, yes I'll update you with that Vector and compare with previous Vectors from the internal remote antenna's
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Hi Neil,
It's difficult to give definitive advice on antenna positions, but IMO in a low wing metal-bodied aircraft, priority should always be given to 'forward and down' visibility. This maximises detection of aircraft approaching from the front (maximum closing speed so minimum warning time) and also covers the area in front and below which is not clearly visible from the left-hand seat. This position will also maximise connectivity and response with ground stations in your direction of travel for uplink of data. I wouldn't get hung up on obscuration by the engine. If the approaching aircraft is near your own height, it will be picked up well before it gets close enough to be screened by your engine. If it is significantly higher, it will probably still be picked up at long range and will be visible to the eye (and likely to pass well overhead in any case) as it gets closer.
Whilst there should be no practical interaction between the P3i and Transponder antennas, I would recommend maximising separation between the PAW 1090 antenna (the shorter one as you are no doubt aware) and your transponder antenna to avoid any possibility of signal blocking. Having done some research into the Fuji FA200 (including watching several YouTube videos to get a feel for the 'normal' angle of attack), my suggested option would be to mount the external antennas under the front seats, either side of the centre line - ahead of the main undercarriage legs and where they will get minimal obscuration from the front suspension leg. This will also have the benefit of minimising the length of the antenna feed lines.
I hope this helps with your deliberations.
Best Regards as always
Peter
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Outstanding Peter, thanks for taking the time.
Best Regards
Neil
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Hi all,
Thanks for this post and answers which provides useful info on the new FX unit.
I've been looking at upgrading also, but I'm concerned about the loss of the audio alerts. For me this is a major retrograde step. Currently my Rosetta unit provides audio via a wired connection to the Garmin GMA240 audio panel (which does not have a bluetooth input as far as I'm aware). I don't have a bluetooth headset either, and I would be reluctant buy one since I prefer to have control over the audio in one place and be able to suppress alerts at busy times with the push of a button.
So the response below, to use bluetooth from Skydemon on my ipad would not work for me. Does anyone else have this problem? Can anyone offer any other solutions, for example a standalone bluetooth to audio jack gizmo?
Note: There is an audio jack on my old ipad but this would be difficult to access via our panel mount and require a messy cutout and visible headphone jack+wire.
2 Is there no PAw traffic voice anymore? (We wired the PAw into our Audio Panel). We don't need it, we use SD voice these days and Bluetooth an SD tablet to the Audio Panel.
Correct, the FX doesn’t include an onboard audio circuit. Most users now prefer voice alerts from EFBs like SD via Bluetooth. That said, we’re open to revisiting this if demand for native audio grows.
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I don't have a bluetooth headset either, and I would be reluctant buy one since I prefer to have control over the audio in one place and be able to suppress alerts at busy times with the push of a button.
So the response below, to use bluetooth from Skydemon on my ipad would not work for me. Does anyone else have this problem? Can anyone offer any other solutions, for example a standalone bluetooth to audio jack gizmo?
I was not a fan of the loss of the audio out jack on the FX.
However, there is an opportunity here for an improvement.
I used a Bluetooth receiver into my Lynx intercom, you could use the same and connect a BT receiver into your Garmin if you can source the right wiring.
The big bonus of doing this is that you can then get both traffic and airspace alerts, properly spaced out without one talking over the other.
Set both up from Skydemon, which will then transmit them over BT to your intercom.
When flying with the FX, I therefore have both traffic and airspace alerts.
The BT adaptor I bought has an on/off switch and a volume control on the body, so all alerts can be quickly adjusted or turned off.
You will need to get USB power to the adaptor...
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Thanks for your response Steve.
This sounds like a possible solution for me also.
Please could you provide details of the BT adaptor that you use. I've seen a few on Amazon but most seem to be battery powered and I'm not sure how reliable they would be in a cockpit environment.
Best regards,
Chris.
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I believe Skydemon have got Mendelssohn to supply a cable to connect a BT dongle to Garmin https://www.gps.co.uk/product/skydemon-bluetooth-interface-kit/
Would that work?
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Please could you provide details of the BT adaptor that you use. I've seen a few on Amazon but most seem to be battery powered and I'm not sure how reliable they would be in a cockpit environment.
This was what I bought. On/off button, volume controls on the side, 3.5mm jack out (same as PAW Rosetta) and power via USB micro.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355786862676 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355786862676)
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Hi All,
This can be a very complex area.
The Bluetooth dongle which Neil has referenced can be used (in various configurations) to allow SkyDemon to pass data to various panel-mount radios to enable preselection of radio frequencies, or to pass route information to automatic pilots and I see no obvious reason why it can't be used to receive audio over Bluetooth from SkyDemon (or other nav systems) on iPad or Android devices. There can, however, be significant issues to understand and address, unless you have expertise in this area, or someone else has already done (and published) the configuration for your particular desired setup. As it happens, I just received one of the IRXON dongles from China in the post on Friday which I intend to use to enable control of frequencies on my Trig Radio from SkyDemon. I satisfactorily configured the unit with SkyDemon on my iPad this morning (Saturday), but still need to hardwire the dongle to my Trig radio control head (though as this has already been done extensively and effectively and documented by others - including SkyDemon, and was demonstrated to me in the Trig Service Workshops a couple of weeks back, I don't anticipate any particular issues in my case).
The BT adaptor from eBay referenced by Steve should also work - provided your Garmin intercom has a suitable jack socket to take the audio input from the adaptor. I have used similar devices in the past with my previous intercom, but now have Bluetooth audio inputs in both my intercom (Microavionics) and my (Bose) headset.
I hope this helps.
Best Regards
Peter
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Thanks for all the info about how to get audio alerts via bluetooth.
Overall, I'm not comfortable with using a bluetooth adapter to get audio alerts from Skydemon on the ipad. I think it would introduce new failure modes and a more complex connection from what I have today. For example, last summer my ipad overheated and shutdown, fortunately I was able to continue getting audio traffic alerts from Rosetta audio out, this would not have been possible if I had upgraded to the FX.
So I think I'll hold off upgrading, maybe in future if audio out is added to the FX unit or another compelling new feature is added then I could reconsider.
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Good Point Chris,
I hadn't thought of that one. I'll (hopefully) be speaking to Ash later today, so will mention this in case he doesn't see the post.
Just out of interest, speaking to Tim Dawson (of SkyDemon) at the LAA Rally at the end of August, he is keen to try to move all app interconnectivity to Bluetooth (instead of WiFi) as he is of the opinion that Bluetooth connectivity is much more reliable and IIRC he said can deal easily with multiple connections at the same time.
Best Regards
Peter
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Router function working on my FX.
Wifi name change works without issues.
Test running on internal GPS antenna - works in the harshest of conditions.
Firmware 20241006
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Not sure where to post this, move as necessary.
I have 2 FX, 1 with external aerials -but the plane has gone tech, bad prop, baaaad prop
2nd one is a carry on - working great!
Issues / requests:
Flying today
1) PAw radar screen was displaying 0 ground stations (top left corner), but SD was showing several base stations, track log showed MANY base stations tracking during the flight. Is this a bug? -ALREADY ANSWERED-
2) I'd like to be able to download my flight and see close traffic etc, same as I can with the Rosetta -ALREADY ASKED-
3) iGrid works better for me on the FX than it did on Rosetta, I don't know why [PM me about one of my favourite 'I don't know why' jokes] -JUST OPINION-
4) If Rosetta / FX users gave a small amount of their system cost, say 25%, that fund could place ground stations in areas without enough of them (Scotland) to benefit themselves and everyone. I would put £200 into that fund. There was a guy in Germany who bought a Rosetta and funded base stations along his normal route to improve coverage...
Overall, the system is awesome, well worth the upgrade. I think the external aerials will be another step change, once MT give us a replacement CV prop...
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I hope this is helpful, it is intended to be
I'd like a separate group for FX issues / questions / fix info. It's a different product, it has different requirements / software update cycle doesn't it?
I've got my tracks with the FX, it's impressive how many stations are talking to my FX the whole way.
I'm currently flying with a carry on FX, so I expect the occasional obscuration drop out of targets (here it comes), but, as I'm constantly tracked by 3 - 10 ground stations, why aren't they keeping my screen current with my close targets? I'm flying with iGrid enabled and active, I don't know how good (bandwidth) the connection is.
I realise there's a reason, it's just that with iGrid / SkyGrid etc, I don't know why, I imagine it's ground station processor workload limited.
Also, (again) on the Radar screen, number of ground stations in view, it isn't working - so that's misleading. If you have a fix in the pipeline, please switch off that bad info in the meantime.
As ever, love the product, best in class
xx (it's valentines day)
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I'm flying with iGrid enabled and active, I don't know how good (bandwidth) the connection is.
I realise there's a reason, it's just that with iGrid / SkyGrid etc, I don't know why, I imagine it's ground station processor workload limited.
If you want to check the different levels of coverage, then head over to:
https://playback.pilotaware.com/playback/groundstations/ (https://playback.pilotaware.com/playback/groundstations/)
and fill in the boxes on the left hand side, then press search. The default protocol is for PilotAware, but once you have found one of your aircraft tracks, change this option to cellular or all to get comparisons. Don't for get to press the "Search" button after every change.
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Yes did that. 2 long flights yesterday, LK-CM @ 3,500'. return at 1,700'
Very similar results for ADSB and PAw, we averaged 9/10 base stations the whole way, a min of 5 and a max of 14, apart from late in the circuit.
This aircraft has a carry on FX with local antennae, I'm looking at fitting dipoles to the windshield with suction cups. The a/c with external antennae is still in the shop :-\
Aircraft detection was hampered sometimes by airframe obscuration could this be passed up from the ground stations? I only need what's within 3km & 1,000'
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Yes did that. 2 long flights yesterday, LK-CM @ 3,500'. return at 1,700'
Very similar results for ADSB and PAw, we averaged 9/10 base stations the whole way, a min of 5 and a max of 14, apart from late in the circuit.
The same resource will allow you to see iGrid coverage if you select "Cellular". Then you could see how good the coverage is as you will see breaks in the track when iGrid isn't being received.