PilotAware
British Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lerk on May 22, 2018, 07:14:58 am
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Coming back south close (but separated and aware) of Sutton bank, we were bombarded with adsb/p3i targets on the ground. These were hiding the warnings of aircraft that we had spotted at similar levels.
I assume this will be an OGN-R station rebroadcasting, but the strange part of it is that I had separation set to 1000ft and we were @ 3500ft. I even went into the config page on my phone and set the separation to 500ft but they still persisted.
After a minute of constant alerts, we pulled the plug on the audio to remove the distraction while we were in such busy airspace.
Any ideas why we were getting alerts that appeared to be outside my separation level?
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Lerk,
I would be surprised if you were getting such a large number of ADSB /P3i targets around Sutton Bank as to cause a nuisance - especially with your filters set to +/-1000ft.
First question - What PAW software version are you running and what Nav System are you using?
Second question - What was actually showing on your 'Nav Display' ? If the 'targets' were aircraft being rebroadcast via OGN-R, they would show as either 'UP-OGN' or 'G-' depending on your PAW software version. Or was it just the Sutton Bank Ground Station itself ? Ground stations normally show as 'G-STN'?
Regards
Peter
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Hi Lerk
Follow up to Peter
Please post your 'Home' and 'Configure' pages, this should tell us everything we need to know
At some point, I may ask if I can get your track file for the flight in question.
Thx
Lee
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I'll boot it up and grab the screenshots when I get home from work later.
I assume the track file will be lurking on the SD card somewhere Lee?
The targets I could see when interrogated on SkyDemon were in the format "Glider ##"
As an added snippet of info - I remember now that we were getting lots of bearingless alerts early into the outbound flight, which resulted in me switching off the bearingless mode option from the config page, I wonder if the two are somehow connected - The unit was left running at our midpoint stop.
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I assume the track file will be lurking on the SD card somewhere Lee?
yes
As an added snippet of info - I remember now that we were getting lots of bearingless alerts early into the outbound flight, which resulted in me switching off the bearingless mode option from the config page, I wonder if the two are somehow connected - The unit was left running at our midpoint stop.
A lot of work has gone into 20180520 to improve the audio repeated messages - depends which version you were on
Thx
Lee
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I haven’t upgraded since I bought it a month ago so sounds like that could be the first thing to do!
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(https://preview.ibb.co/fAUwqo/EC660_EBE_EB2_D_45_F9_9_D6_B_17_EDAC849975.png) (https://ibb.co/ikoBO8)
(https://preview.ibb.co/g97SwT/B8026_BBC_ED0_A_4_D1_A_B86_B_21_F3_AD680_F73.png) (https://ibb.co/btmy38)
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The targets I could see when interrogated on SkyDemon were in the format "Glider ##"
Lee, I havent seen that message format from PAW or OGN-R, is that one of our messages?
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A lot of work has gone into 20180520 to improve the audio repeated messages - depends which version you were on
Hi Lee,
Have I missed the announcement of this release, or is it Beta ?
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A lot of work has gone into 20180520 to improve the audio repeated messages - depends which version you were on
Hi Lee,
Have I missed the announcement of this release, or is it Beta ?
No you haven't missed it Bob, its up on the website, but have not yet sent any notifications
Thx
Lee
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Lerk,
From your screenshots:
Home screen looks as I would expect - as always, it will be worth updating your software once 20180520 is 'officially' released.
The 'Red' indicators are simply reflecting the fact that your unit had only been 'up' for 2 minutes when you took the screengrabs. PilotAware won't let the Bridge start transmitting until the GPS has found enough satellites and established its location.
From the Configure Screen, I see you currently have Mode C/S set to +/- 1000ft and Ultra-Short Range, but you have Mode C/S Select set to 'None' so you won't get any bearingless targets - though I think you already knew that. The Configure Screen layout has been 'improved' in the new version by the way, to make settings a bit more intuitive.
Otherwise, I can see nothing here that would cause your problem.
How about your Nav system - which one are you using and at what settings?
Regards
Peter
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The targets I could see when interrogated on SkyDemon were in the format "Glider ##"
Lee, I havent seen that message format from PAW or OGN-R, is that one of our messages?
No, we do not use that message, all messeges are of the form
'Traffic [notice/alert/danger] ...'
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The targets I could see when interrogated on SkyDemon were in the format "Glider ##"
Lee, I havent seen that message format from PAW or OGN-R, is that one of our messages?
No, we do not use that message, all messeges are of the form
'Traffic [notice/alert/danger] ...'
I took it from the word 'Seen' that Lerk was talking about on screen messages, where I would expect to see 'UP/OGN'
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Ian / Lee,
IIRC we changed 'Up-OGN' to 'G---' in Test Release 20180122, so that would have migrated into the Release 20180129, which Lerk is running.
Regards
Peter
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On Sunday PilotAware was connected to a Anker power pack, audio output running to headset splitter and wifi to android tablet running SkyDemon.
I'm second guessing myself now as to whether it was G# or Glider# but this was seen if we tapped on the contact on Skydemon to get to the "Whats here?" page.
Skydemon itself never warned of any of the contacts, but we were getting audio warnings from PAW with altitudes of ground level.
I'm glad I've got my understanding of the sensitivity settings the right way around!
I've got my SD card in my computer having a look and can't see an obvious log folder where are they hiding Lee?
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Hi Lerk
Putting your disk into a Windows PC will not help - unless it is running Windows 10 ?
You will need to download .trk files, either from a Linux computer, or by connecting to the PilotAware Wifi Hotspot and downloading through the web interface
http://192.168.1.1
Then select 'Tracks'
Thx
Lee
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Lerk,
I find the quickest way to 'download' track files from PAW - after logging in to 192.168.1.1 then clicking on the 'Tracks' tab - is to pop a USB stick into one of the PAW ports and download direct to the stick (simply click 'Sync All' and wait 'til the scroll line finishes moving across the screen). Files can then easily be transferred onto your PC. They can be 'read' by (using Wordpad or Notepad on a Windows PC or Laptop), but they will probably look pretty much like 'gobbledygook' unless / until you get your head round the coding. In the case of serious issues, it's much quicker to transfer the files to Lee (Dropbox works well) as he can run them through his magic decoders much faster than we can do manually.
Best regards
Peter
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Lerk, that's not the best way to find the log files.
Pop the card back into your PAW and boot it up.
Once running, connect your tablet or PC to the hotspot. open up a browser in your device and go to the home page. You will see a tab on the right called tracks. From this page you can save any tracks listed to the device or a USB stick connected to the PAW.
Edit: Pete types faster than me :)
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Interesting!
Thanks for the heads up on extracting the track logs...
Just looking at them as a CSV gives something of an idea if not the full picture.
By rough guessing of our position and a process of elimination for the various columns of data, I think this is the point where the issues were occurring.
Using the easy jet above us I assume that all of the !G contacts at -2200 (2200' below?) are Gliders on the ground.
Doesn't explain why they continued after turning to 500' separation though, unless it buffers announcements when they first occur.
$GPGGA 115158 5414.386 N 110.321 W 1 9 1.2 774 M 47.5 M *58
$GPGSA A 3 31 32 12 14 26 2 6 25 29 0 0 0 1.89 1.17 1.49*00
$GPRMC 115158 A 5414.386 N 110.321 W 104 135 200518 A*70
$PFLAA 2 -640 -1373 -201 1 DDF9C4!G 285 28 1.2 1*18
$PFLAA 1 -891 -2207 -481 1 DDDE6B!G 0 0 0 1*5D
$PFLAA 1 -905 -2241 -483 1 D003C8!G 0 0 0 1*28
$PFLAA 1 -946 -2229 -487 1 DDE5FC!G 0 0 -0.2 1*73
$PFLAA 1 -950 -2238 -483 1 DDA886!G 0 0 0 1*5D
$PFLAA 1 -950 -2239 -483 1 DDEE48!G 0 0 0.1 1*26
$PFLAA 1 -912 -2257 -492 1 DDF92E!G 0 0 0 1*2D
$PFLAA 1 -914 -2263 -484 1 DDEE59!G 0 0 0 1*2F
$PFLAA 1 -957 -2255 -485 1 405325!G 0 0 0.1 1*24
$PFLAA 1 -958 -2257 -487 1 DD51D8!G 0 0 0 1*57
$PFLAA 1 -961 -2265 -493 1 DD4F52!G 0 0 0 1*54
$PFLAA 1 -922 -2282 -482 1 406E0E!G 0 0 0 2*2E
$PFLAA 1 -965 -2274 -496 1 DDA884!G 0 0 -0.1 1*79
$PFLAA 1 -972 -2291 -480 1 401CDF!G 0 0 0 2*5D
$PFLAA 0 -1270 -2389 -490 1 04F17C!G/STN 0 0 0 15*4E
$PFLAA 1 -1302 -2557 -495 1 DDBF13!G 288 0 0.1 1*1A
$PFLAA 0 -15365 44625 10587 1 406F00!G-EZOY 125 232 0 9*40
$PFLAU 0 1 1 1 0 0 *63
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This explains it
The third arg is height in metres
Approx 500m is approx 1500ft
The outer gps zone is +/-2000ft @3km
That explains the audio
It was doing its job ;D
And yes would have already been sent to audio buffer
Ypu can search for audio in this file too, these are logged
You can reduce this field, please check the manual
Thx
Lee
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Aha, I’d assumed the vertical separation applied to all contacts, but now I look closely I see that is just for bearingless targets. Is there no vertical setpoint for gps targets other than in SkyDemon??
Thanks for the assistance Lee.
Is the data format of the track logs available anywhere for Public viewing or is that your IP?
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The data is amixture of
Nmea
Flarm dataport
Pilotaware
You can google flarm dataport spec
Thx
Lee
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Aha, I’d assumed the vertical separation applied to all contacts, but now I look closely I see that is just for bearingless targets. Is there no vertical setpoint for gps targets other than in SkyDemon
There are now vertical and horizontal filters for known position targets in the latest version of PilotAware too. You need to install version 20180520 available from PilotAware.lode.co.uk. Quickest is to update by .pgp via USB stick.
Regards
Peter
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There are now vertical and horizontal filters for known position targets in the latest version of PilotAware too.
Well that's good news, especially for those who use nav programs where there are no facilities to apply filters. It's also good news for those who want to pipe PAW to their EFIS and set filters (I'm yet to see an EFIS where you can get PAW into it and apply filters at the EFIS).
The only thing I might say is that this additional facility needs some 'promotion' as the information on the latest update does not mention this:
This fixes a number of recent bugs including WiFi drops when receiving Aircraft Flight ID > 8 characters
Wifi Drops due to Connected devices going into standby mode
Also includes Code for Weather reception and GDL90 support